Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 92

Thread: The Bitter Health Care Debate

  1. #1
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    20,185

    The Bitter Health Care Debate

    Why is it so difficult for Americans to accept universal health care? Are we not our Brothers' Keepers? What exactly is wrong with socialized medicine? No one has come up with another plan for Health Care. The matter is not being able to choose a doctor - that is already in the Obama Plan. It is a question of the loss of riches from certain sectors of the economy, so let's keep the humbled poor down as much as we can. Le Bougoisie(sp) moving right along.

    How important is Capitalistic Democracy over Socialistc Democracy.

  2. #2
    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9,383
    One reason is the lies that are being promoted by some of the media/talking heads. Last year when the recession hit worldwide I received a letter from a friend in Great Britain who had money invested with AIG saying they would have to let their personal private health insurance go. How often do we hear that there is no such thing in Britain? Another British friend wrote to say that no British politician could be elected if he/she were for eliminating their National Health Plan. He felt it was better than what America has.
    Aside from that my personal opinion is that we are putting the cart before the horse at the present time. You have to have the budget to pay for this & at present we are borrowing from the Chinese to keep our government afloat. Why should they have to subsidize health care in America? Let's concentrate on creating jobs, bringing back jobs sent overseas, whatever it takes to get people back to work. Then we'll begin to collect more taxes to lower the deficit & eventually raise taxes to cover a Universal Health Care Plan. IMO, Taxation is the only way to successfully pay for it & there's no point in creating a UHC if you can't afford it.

  3. #3
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,646
    You have to have the budget to pay for this & at present we are borrowing from the Chinese to keep our government afloat.
    That's my biggest concern. You "get what you pay for." And our country is in debt up to our eyeballs...

  4. #4
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    3,890
    If people didn't have to worry as much about how to pay for their health needs, they would be more productive and thus make more money and thus spend more money and thus the American economy would swell again.

  5. #5
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,646
    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    If people didn't have to worry as much about how to pay for their health needs, they would be more productive and thus make more money and thus spend more money and thus the American economy would swell again.
    please tell me this is sarcasm?

  6. #6
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    UK - Manchester
    Posts
    4,913
    Quote Originally Posted by merrywidow View Post
    One reason is the lies that are being promoted by some of the media/talking heads. Last year when the recession hit worldwide I received a letter from a friend in Great Britain who had money invested with AIG saying they would have to let their personal private health insurance go. How often do we hear that there is no such thing in Britain? Another British friend wrote to say that no British politician could be elected if he/she were for eliminating their National Health Plan. He felt it was better than what America has.
    Aside from that my personal opinion is that we are putting the cart before the horse at the present time. You have to have the budget to pay for this & at present we are borrowing from the Chinese to keep our government afloat. Why should they have to subsidize health care in America? Let's concentrate on creating jobs, bringing back jobs sent overseas, whatever it takes to get people back to work. Then we'll begin to collect more taxes to lower the deficit & eventually raise taxes to cover a Universal Health Care Plan. IMO, Taxation is the only way to successfully pay for it & there's no point in creating a UHC if you can't afford it.
    Private health insurance is a "benefit" of more or less any graduate job so it certainly does exist over here. Despite this I think most people never use it. While i do have it, the only operation i've ever had (having a wisdom tooth removed) was done on the NHS despite me having private health coverage.

    There are many things debated and discussed about the National Health Service in the UK and yes it does suffer from lack of funding, cutbacks are nearly always made to it, especially in these difficult times, however, it does serve a great purpose and while it can always be imporved, it does phenomenally well considering the lack of funding and the mismanagement that occurs in the running of it.

    My "father in law" had to have a hip replacement recently. He saw the doctor, was given a date within 3 months of his first consultation to go into hospital and have it done. He was in for about 4 days, in a ward with three other similar aged men and the after care has been pretty good. It's not as instant as with private health insurance, but when you consider the fact he didn't have to pay a penny for all of that including pain relief and drugs he was sent home with nor will be pay for all the physiotherapy he will require now. I don't even know what the cost of that operation would be if paid for privately.

    The theory is that a lot of the money that goes to the NHS is paid for from the tax that is levied on cigarettes. Conisider that the cost of a single pack of 20 cigarettes (not a carton but a pack) is somewhere in the region of £7 here in the uk (nearly US$12) that does show you how much revenue is created here from taxing cigarettes.

    It isn't seen as a big deal to not have private health insurance here in the UK because while waiting lists are still quite big, if you have a serious health problem, something that requires immediate attention, you skip to the front of the queue. While it can be frustrating for the patient who turns up to hospital, having fasted expecting to get their operation who then waits til the end of the day and gets sent home because more emergency operation havd to be done that day, i think people understand and realise that they are very lucky to have the system we have.

    Ant

  7. #7
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Staring at the ocean and smiling.
    Posts
    14,284
    antmanb, Thanks for the good information.


    One thing:
    You can be sent home without surgery, having fasted, here, if too many people requiring emergency surgery arrive. There are only so many operating rooms in the hospital, and only so many hours in the day. That has nothing to do with your insurance.

  8. #8
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    UK - Manchester
    Posts
    4,913
    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    antmanb, Thanks for the good information.


    One thing:
    You can be sent home without surgery, having fasted, here, if too many people requiring emergency surgery arrive. There are only so many operating rooms in the hospital, and only so many hours in the day. That has nothing to do with your insurance.
    That's very interesting to note. If that happens are you compensated in any way?

    Ant

  9. #9
    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9,383
    No, antmanb, we are not compensated for having appointments delayed or canceled. Thank you for weighing in & further enlightening us on the British Health Care system.

  10. #10
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    1,560
    I think if people could put themselves in perspective, and ask themselves what if I were the poor? Things would be a lot easier. One of my friends is a strong againster to the health care reform. She and I debated a lot. The more I think about it, the more I think it's good to go for it even if it means that we need to pay more tax for it. I imagine that if I were the poor, I would love to have health care as good as the richers.

  11. #11
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    4,660

    In Favour of Health Coverage

    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Why is it so difficult for Americans to accept universal health care? Are we not our Brothers' Keepers? What exactly is wrong with socialized medicine? No one has come up with another plan for Health Care. The matter is not being able to choose a doctor - that is already in the Obama Plan. It is a question of the loss of riches from certain sectors of the economy, so let's keep the humbled poor down as much as we can. Le Bougoisie(sp) moving right along.

    How important is Capitalistic Democracy over Socialistc Democracy.
    Hey Joe, one of the greatest provisions we have here in Canada is our Medical coverage. Every Canadian is entitled to coverage and to visit the Dr. of his or her choice. Most necessary surgery is covered (some electives are paritally or not covered - depends if it is cosmetic). I am very grateful over the years for all the great care I have received. We all pay a monthly premium based on our income - some like my husband and I are covered through our employers. Even people who are on income assistance or low income only pay according to their income. No Canadian is denied health care. Every Province has it's own Administration and premiums, but one must be a resident of said Province to apply for coverage.

    Of course we owe all of this to Tommy Douglas (Kiefer Sutherland's grandfather) who was the Premier of Saskatchewan in the 60s and fought for a Universal Health system for Canadians. A couple of years ago Tommy Douglas was voted the Greatest Canadian because of what he did for us in establishing what became our Medicare System. There were many Great Canadians in the running, but Tommy Douglas won hands down because Canadians agree that this is probably one of our greatest gifts.

    http://www.cbc.ca/greatest/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Douglas

    I am glad I live here and can't even imagine living anywhere else without some sort of medical coverage. I don't get what the big fuss is in the States. Believe me it is worth every penny.

    This link explains our coverage

    http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/msp/infoben/benefits.html

    Thank you Tommy Douglas!!!


  12. #12
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    3,890
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    please tell me this is sarcasm?
    No, it isn't at all.

    Healthy people feel better about themselves and are more productive.

    Anyone who understands humanity should realize why it is important for the government to provide basic needs for its people. We no longer live in an age where there are Kings and Queens with divine will, and nobility who are "worth more" (in terms of being human beings) than the peasants.

    Nor do we live in an age where isolationism should be valued. We are a global community.

    I would hope people learn from the mistakes of the past. Any thoughts of denying basic universal health care are motivated by greed and/or ignorance.

  13. #13
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,646
    well I guess I'm ignorant, then, because I don't have insurance and I just put down 2600 on oral surgery, and not once did I think the government should have been paying any portion of it.

    eta - and no, I'm not independantly wealthy. it set me back quite a bit - used my savings to do it... not good, but it had to be done.
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 12-19-2009 at 12:30 PM.

  14. #14
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,477
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladskater View Post
    We all pay a monthly premium based on our income - some like my husband and I are covered through our employers. Even people who are on income assistance or low income only pay according to their income.
    I don't pay a monthly premium so I don't think that is true for all of Canada.
    Last edited by i love to skate; 12-19-2009 at 12:33 PM.

  15. #15
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    3,890
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    well I guess I'm ignorant, then, because I don't have insurance and I just put down 2600 on oral surgery, and not once did I think the government should have been paying any portion of it.

    eta - and no, I'm not independantly wealthy. it set me back quite a bit - used my savings to do it... not good, but it had to be done.
    And if the government had payed for it (the kind of surgery you were getting is definitely a key thing here, though) how would that have been bad for you?

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •