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Thread: Dube and Davison Bring Judges To Tears

  1. #31
    D/W fan ~tapdancer's Avatar
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    Canadian judges must cry a lot.

    Seems like I heard this very same thing about V/M's FD at Thornhill.

  2. #32
    Tripping on the Podium
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    This LP is slowly growing on me...like mould (And yes, their costumes sadly remind me of mould...why...WHY! would you put such 2 attractive people in such a blahhh costume. It's not even...BAD.....it's just...blah)

    I wish they would do something else a bit more different but they don't seem to be very comfortable doing non-romantic stuff. (Case in point --> Requiem for a Dream SP. Meh)

    Glad they did well for the nationals...Am so psyched for the pairs event at olympics! =D

  3. #33
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    I don't think Bryce is the weak link. I think Jessica might have stronger individual skating skills, if even that - maybe just stronger extension and line, but I think Bryce is the stronger, more natural performer and pairs skater. He creates the team in that team. Bryce especially uses his hands very well, phrases the music and choreography very organically with them and is the one who creates what emotional shadings there are in the program. Of the two, he's way more dynamic and a pairs team needs a little of that.

    I don't think the program is empty choreographically - there's nice in betweens, the ina bauers into the second throw, the sweep Jessica does around the ice and back to Bryce after the first throw, some of the transitions, the mood changes in the final pairs spin expressed by position changes - I think it's well put together. However, Canada makes a huge deal that chemistry is the thing that D&D bring to the table that the other couples lack, and IMO that's delusional. S&S have a very similar program in Out of Africa (thwarted love, lovers turning away and separated at the end) and a lovely connection on the ice. S/Z have beautiful presentation, especially her, AND a lovely connection on the ice. Both of those teams skate with heart that D&D cannot claim to surpass.

    Zang and Zang, I'll give it to D&D every day of the week. M&T - they don't exude warmth, but they are very LIGHT, clean and smooth, and sometimes D&D clunk.

    Bryce once said that what they really need to work on is GOES and I agree with that and I look to Jessica for it. For example, even in this skate, she audibly "thunked" down from one lift, and the first time she skated Way We Were, she dropped her skate down heavily coming up out of a death spiral. She's got lovely "static" positions - positions when they are held, but sometimes when she's actually moving out of them she can be a little leg heavy or body heavy in how she holds herself.
    Last edited by nevergonnadance; 01-20-2010 at 09:58 AM.

  4. #34
    Rink Rat i love to skate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevergonnadance View Post
    I don't think Bryce is the weak link. I think Jessica might have stronger individual skating skills, if even that - maybe just stronger extension and line, but I think Bryce is the stronger, more natural performer and pairs skater. He creates the team in that team. Bryce especially uses his hands very well, phrases the music and choreography very organically with them and is the one who creates what emotional shadings there are in the program. Of the two, he's way more dynamic and a pairs team needs a little of that.

    I don't think the program is empty choreographically - there's nice in betweens, the ina bauers into the second throw, the sweep Jessica does around the ice and back to Bryce after the first throw, some of the transitions, the mood changes in the final pairs spin expressed by position changes - I think it's well put together. However, Canada makes a huge deal that chemistry is the thing that D&D bring to the table that the other couples lack, and IMO that's delusional. S&S have a very similar program in Out of Africa (thwarted love, lovers turning away and separated at the end) and a lovely connection on the ice. S/Z have beautiful presentation, especially her, AND a lovely connection on the ice. Both of those teams skate with heart that D&D cannot claim to surpass.
    The program is very well put together, I agree. I also agree that S/Z have a connection but I wouldn't say that S/S have near as much of a connection as Jess and Bryce. What seperates Jess and Bryce from S/S in the area of connection, is that their story is real - they were together and now they aren't and this whole year and program has been dedicated to them getting back to that positive space they had when they were together. S/S are a very good team and have great tricks but connection is not something I see from them, IMO. Besides, S/Z, Jess and Bryce or the only team which bring honest chemistry to the ice.

    Quote Originally Posted by nevergonnadance View Post
    Bryce once said that what they really need to work on is GOES and I agree with that and I look to Jessica for it. For example, even in this skate, she audibly "thunked" down from one lift, and the first time she skated Way We Were, she dropped her skate down heavily coming up out of a death spiral. She's got lovely "static" positions - positions when they are held, but sometimes when she's actually moving out of them she can be a little leg heavy or body heavy in how she holds herself.
    I think it was the short program at TEB where she dropped her foot - as their arms kind of weakened at the spiral collapsed on the exit. One thing I really noticed an improvement in was her body position in the one hand overhead lift. Usually, she is leaning forwards but her position was much more upright than it is been in the past. As for lines, the spiral sequences for pairs should be scrapped as many of them men cannot achieve a nice position - such as Bryce's. Jessica lowered her leg this time in the first spiral though, so their line was matched, which I was happy to see.

  5. #35
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    We're going to disagree on S&S - Out of Africa brought the audience to its feet the first time it was skated. I think they have a very natural and palpable chemistry in both their short program and their new long.

    A personal history may have meaning to the skaters and help them perform, but that's not the type of thing that matters to CoP or even under the 6.0 system. I don't think "it's real" makes much difference. It's what is actually present on the ice that matters, not where it came from.

    Ideally, I think, a sense of performance instead of just rote element execution helps the program and the judges are looking for that, so D&D, S&Z and S&S all can create that. However, it's not a void D&D fill. They can't count on being the ones who skate like a pair while everyone else has the "big tricks". The other two have big tricks, skate like a pair, and create a beautiful performance as well. And what M&T do, while not warm and fuzzy, is clean and pretty, sharp and smooth, which also creates a mood (IOW, it's not necessarily about acting or "emotion")

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevergonnadance View Post
    A personal history may have meaning to the skaters and help them perform, but that's not the type of thing that matters to CoP or even under the 6.0 system. I don't think "it's real" makes much difference. It's what is actually present on the ice that matters, not where it came from.
    It matters to me as a fan. People have been raving about Jess and Bryce's skate - including past Olympians, other skaters, judges, commentators, reporters, etc. Many people had tears in their eyes so I think people do appreciate a performance that is "real". When you skate a program as well as they did and have that moment where you can hear a pin drop because the audience is so involved I think that is something special. This is the ideal performance from a pairs team.

    Quote Originally Posted by nevergonnadance View Post
    Ideally, I think, a sense of performance instead of just rote element execution helps the program and the judges are looking for that, so D&D, S&Z and S&S all can create that. However, it's not a void D&D fill. They can't count on being the ones who skate like a pair while everyone else has the "big tricks". The other two have big tricks, skate like a pair, and create a beautiful performance as well. And what M&T do, while not warm and fuzzy, is clean and pretty, sharp and smooth, which also creates a mood (IOW, it's not necessarily about acting or "emotion")
    Like I said, I think S/S are a great pair they just don't do it for me. I love S/Z but I don't think M/T create a mood at all. They don't even look at each other when they perform. They get the job done but since they brought in Love Story to work and involve the Canadian crowd at the Oylmpics - I expect more of a performance factor. It just isn't going to work if they keep skating it the way they do - especially if they skate anywhere near Jess and Bryce.

  7. #37
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    It matters to me as a fan. People have been raving about Jess and Bryce's skate - including past Olympians, other skaters, judges, commentators, reporters, etc. Many people had tears in their eyes so I think people do appreciate a performance that is "real". When you skate a program as well as they did and have that moment where you can hear a pin drop because the audience is so involved I think that is something special. This is the ideal performance from a pairs team.
    It matters to me too i love to skate. When a pairs performance results in my heart in my throat because I am so caught up in the emotion they're portraying, when I hardly notice the difficulty of the tricks because they've become a seamless part of the show, that, to me, is the ultimate. I only felt that way about one other performance and that was Jamie and David's. I love pairs skating, it is my favourite discipline of them all, but when I see them just doing stroke stroke stroke, flail arms a bit, jump, stroke stroke stroke, throw, stroke, lift, flail arms a bit more...you get the picture...I don't get emotionally involved. I can admire the height and the speed and the intricacy of the the tricks, but if I am entertained and left breathless by what I've just experienced, that is worth high marks to me. They've included me in their moment and that's priceless.

  8. #38
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    At Euros, K/S circus valse kicked S/S Out of Africa in the gut, audiencewise. Tallinn didn't really buy that program as much.:(

    I wonder if there was any Russian judge crying at D/D

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by i love to skate View Post
    It matters to me as a fan. People have been raving about Jess and Bryce's skate - including past Olympians, other skaters, judges, commentators, reporters, etc. Many people had tears in their eyes so I think people do appreciate a performance that is "real". When you skate a program as well as they did and have that moment where you can hear a pin drop because the audience is so involved I think that is something special. This is the ideal performance from a pairs team.
    I admit, I've never been moved to actual tears by a skate (except, er, tears of laughter) but I don't think a "real" personal history is necessarily important in creating that special moment of connection/pinnacle of performance and audience involvement, etc for a pairs team. I would have to agree with nevergonnadance about S/S--I was at Skate Canada when S/S first debuted their Out of Africa LP, and I would honestly say that they really had a wonderful, subtle chemistry that wasn't overtly romantic, but was still palable and definitely created a moment. I would think the rest of the audience agreed too, since S/S received a full standing ovation.

    I guess that I'm not necessarily that fond of the conflation of romance and pair skating--the most memorable and moving performances for me (e.g. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze's Lady Caliph, Mishkutenok/Dmitriev's Rachmaninoff, Shen/Zhao's Turandot, heck, even Mukhortova/Trankov's Pink Floyd), none of them were really overtly romantic or brought their personal history onto the table, but they were splendid performances, had the 'big tricks' and were beautiful to me in a way that, well, D/D never were, even with their romance and all (no offense to D/D, of course).

  10. #40
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    My points have mostly been made, but I will add that a sense of story off the ice tends to give things more punch, even if it's inadvertent. It can be simply having a great comeback skate on home ice.

    Now, I think D/D's skate is exceedingly well choreographed

  11. #41
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    Such a nice performance by D/D. I personally think it feels very genuine and sincere. The choreography is so subtle yet so powerful.
    I am so sad Duhamel and Buntin aren't going to the Olympics though... I love them...

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