ITA about '91 Worlds. I didn't see the OD's or CD's from '92, and I thought Klimova and Ponomorenko were amazing. But I never could understand how Usova and Zhulin could ever be behind the Duschenays.Originally posted by soogar
The most underrated skaters were Usova and Zhulin. They were an amazing team and they should have won '91 worlds and the '92 OGM. They should have never been placed behind the Duschenays.
Because it's full of posing and is insanely easy? I don't see where the difficulty is. Pasha said she could have learned that FD in 5 mintues (I say this, not because what she said is neccessarily true, but just how other ice dancers viewed the program).Originally posted by egskater0003
When did this occur? I loved their Riverdance program and they were so cheated of the bronze medal in 98. Their program was way more exciting and well performed than A/P. A/P's R&J was so boring I couldn't believe they edged out B&K.
What was so controversial about B/K's Riverdance?
A&P's R&J is one of my favorite FD's of all time. The choreography was perfection, and the program just flowed. I can never take my eyes off it.
I agree totally about the Dischenays. I watch their programs and amOriginally posted by hockeyfan228
ITA about '91 Worlds. I didn't see the OD's or CD's from '92, and I thought Klimova and Ponomorenko were amazing. But I never could understand how Usova and Zhulin could ever be behind the Duschenays.. I honestly don't see what was so great about them.
TV
Okay, first of all...PETR BARNA, not Petra! (Petra, I would think, would be a woman!) No, I don't think he's underrated, I just wanted to correct the spelling, as it jumped out at me as I was re-reading this thread!!
Although I was never a major fan of his, and still am not, I am still sticking by Todd Eldredge (who had EVERYTHING but the quad, and that missing jump had people jumping his butt for years).
I also agree with those who put in Lu Chen...total beauty and grace, in a class of her own, I think.
How about Brasseur and Eisler? They were known as the 'tricksters', but they had the speed, they had the edges, and often, the emotion and artistry as well.
How about Maria Butyrskaya? (Another non-fave of mine, but come on, she did win a Worlds)...the few times I ever saw her hold her nerves in check for a clean program, she had some nice moments.
I think Nicole Bobek was too undertrained (usually) and too unprepared (usually) and too inconsistent (mostly) to be considered underrated. The few times she held it together, she, like Butyrskaya, was rewarded.
Paul Wylie, anyone? Yeah, another inconsistant one....but how about the 1991 (? maybe 90) nationals, when his brilliance and '6.0's lost out to Eldredge because of the different weighting of the scores.
Yuka Sato?? Yeah, true skating fans know her, and fully appreciate her, as the 'skater's skater'....non-skating fans don't know her from Midori Ito!
Takeshi Honda...he IS inconsistent, but hey, the guy is 22, 23? And he's been on the international scene since he was 14. WOW.
And, although this thread seems to have turned into the 'Kulik's Krew' vs. the 'Anti-Ilia's....I think Kulik also...just because my god! The guy is talented as heck, still has great jumps, great amplitude, feet just a few notches below Browning's, and WOW, is still in his mid-20's. I agree with all who wish he would be back on SOI...I have front row tickets, and would LOVE to see him! I had kind of forgotten him somewhat, but this year has rejuvenated my interest!
Just a few more I thought I'd throw out here!
Kasey
Kinda, but keep in mind, I don't think he was considered a frontrunner for a gold medal at that point prior to the competition because he skated so early in the SP (before others had faltered) and was, IIRC, 5th(?) in '91. The hyped Oly frontrunners were considered (rightly or wrongly) Browning, Petrenko, Bowman, and possibly Todd.Originally posted by thvudragon
!!!!!!!!! I must agree! I've seen his vids from soulseek, and i think he was the most interesting skater of the time in terms of men. I was listening though, and Hamilton made it sound like he would only win because most of the panel was Eastern Euro. I was like
TV
That being said, Petr had also just defeated Petrenko at Europeans, so it's safe to say he was pretty popular with the Euro judges who did love his artistry and the marks showed it (not a negative thing). Frankly, his artistry was popular with everyone but while I think the 3-axel technicians like Browning & Petrenko were given a lot of the media hype, artists like Petr and Paul were going to get respect and big scores from judges as well in terms of artistry.
I think Scott was trying to say (somewhat unsuccessfully) that although Barna didn't have a 3x combo in the like most men, he had great style which appealed to European judges that had shown that they liked his dramatic style. He also added that he thought Barna's SP combo was more difficult than a 3x combo.
I mean I didn't take Scott's Euro comments as negative against Petr. I think Petrenko choked big time, and I would have given Barna the silver over him even with the fall. I love that Hamlet program except for the last 30 secs or so.
That program is one of the few dance programs that I cannot take my eyes off of. One of my favorites ever. I like B&K but A&P were absolutely stunning and made Riverdance look juniorish.A&P's R&J is one of my favorite FD's of all time. The choreography was perfection, and the program just flowed. I can never take my eyes off it.
I think G&P were absolutely brilliant as well. I think they made difficult things look so easy and flow so fast. I thought their excitement & energy were contagious and I felt it even when I was watching them on tv.
I love Jeff Buttle and Matt Savoie. Two of the few skaters that I could watch for 4:30 minutes with NO jumps and still be mesmerized. Lambiel is another. I'm so glad Jeff is getting some attention this year.
Last edited by Verbalgirl77; 12-20-2003 at 10:15 AM.
Sorry, double post
OOOH OOOH!! ANOTHER ONE! OR TWO!!
LAURENT TOBEL!!!!! :D
Oh yeah, and Joe Sabovcik, who some (like me!) still believe was the first to do the quad!!!
For all who don't remember '91 worlds, Usova and Zhulin were first going into the free dance after comp. and set pattern and were uncermoniously dropped to third after a beautiful free dance and the Duschenays wound up winning worlds over Klimova and Ponamerenko. No wonder Sasha Zhulin has such a hatred of the judging. To be honest , I was really dismayed when they did not win the '94 gold medal. Whatever you may say about ice dancing, for the longest time is was wait your turn. K&P waited for 3 olympics to get their gold medal (bronze '84, silver '88. gold '92) while when the time came for U&Z to be rewarded , they wound up getting the silver and G&P came out of nowhere to win. I felt that they were duped by the system b/c for the longest time K&P were the top couple and U&Z had to settle for second even though there were many occasions that they were a much better team. Also I really think that the French made some kind of deal for the Duschenays b/c I don't see how a majority eastern bloc panel would put the crappy Duschenays in front of such an elegant team. Even Sandra Bezic complained about the scoring and usually she's so biased.
Don't get me wrong, I love K&P and I feel that they are perfect ice dancers, but U&Z had so much fire and grace that it's ridiculous how they only won 1 world title and no Olympic gold medals.
Barna RULEZ!!!!!!!!
I've gotten to the point where I just watch the Duchesnays, and I get mad. I dont' know how anyone could like those totally slow, and lackluster programs that lack any substance whatsoever. I think they're more overrated than Bourne and KraatzOriginally posted by soogar
For all who don't remember '91 worlds, Usova and Zhulin were first going into the free dance after comp. and set pattern and were uncermoniously dropped to third after a beautiful free dance and the Duschenays wound up winning worlds over Klimova and Ponamerenko. No wonder Sasha Zhulin has such a hatred of the judging. To be honest , I was really dismayed when they did not win the '94 gold medal. Whatever you may say about ice dancing, for the longest time is was wait your turn. K&P waited for 3 olympics to get their gold medal (bronze '84, silver '88. gold '92) while when the time came for U&Z to be rewarded , they wound up getting the silver and G&P came out of nowhere to win. I felt that they were duped by the system b/c for the longest time K&P were the top couple and U&Z had to settle for second even though there were many occasions that they were a much better team. Also I really think that the French made some kind of deal for the Duschenays b/c I don't see how a majority eastern bloc panel would put the crappy Duschenays in front of such an elegant team. Even Sandra Bezic complained about the scoring and usually she's so biased.. I also hate that she has no expression in her body, all her movements are stiff. Uhhhggg, I HATE THE DUCHESNAYS!
It's happening already.......
TV
I think K&P are somewhat underrated as well. Not as underrated as U&Z-who are one of the greatest dance teams not to have won the Olympic gold. K&P are very respected w/in the skating world-in the Hall of Fame, Sergei now is the ice dance tech specialist, but skating fans sometimes seem to forget their contribution to the sport.
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