most Underrated Skater is...?

I don't think that Sarah can be considered underrated, regardless of her underrotations or anything else. She has won one major competition, and that competition happened to be the Olympics. She got media publicity and international respect from people within the skating world for that win, but she has only had ONE major win. For someone who does not have a significant amount of hardware, people give her quite a bit of respect. I don't find her underrated in the slightest.

It's interesting to see what people percieve to be the criteria for being underrated. Generally I agree with what hockeyfan said-I also think when you skated, who you skated against etc, also plays apart in being underrated.

I agree that Ryan Jhanke has always been underrated. I've been a fan for years and waiting for him to be "discovered". His line IS to die for, and his transitions are THERE. But, the only reason he was on the podium this past year was because all those jumpers splatted and had NOTHING to show in a program when there was no jumping going on. He did. Unfortunately for us viewers, I don't think the lesson will be learned by the judges and the powers that be, anyway. I think they will still keep on rewarding all those gawky jumpers and nothing else, and it will keep on spawning embarrassing national spectaculars like last year's nationals.

So, obviously, Ryan represents what I always thought figure skating was---in opposition to jump skating ---which is rewarded today. I think that's what the apples and oranges are here in this thread that we won't ever be able to agree upon. So, we can agree to disagree about that.

Otherwise, Fumie, Bielman, Punsilan and Swallow, Liashenko, and I'm sure I can think of some more presently.

I think, maybe, if we establish just what would be the normal rated skater and see if any skaters can come up to that standard. I think, too, that overrated skaters should be avoided since that term could be cause for a lot of rehashed bashings.

Joe

sk8m8 said:

Bourne and Kratz, though highly decorated and respected, still underated for what they did and how they did it. Should have AT LEAST Two olympic medals and 3-4 World championships. Gave the world a look at what North American Ice Dancing Style could be.

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Could you please explain this opinion, because it makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't understand how they were 3rd at all in the FD in the 98 Olys. The program was full of posing and insanely easy steps. They also had an OD that was nothing but crossovers. How A&P's utterly stunning R&J FD placed behind B&K makes no sense to me. And saying "AT LEAST" leads me to think that you think they should have more than 2.

Also, please explain how they should have 3-4 World Championships, when even the one they have is hotly disputed. I don't see where they should have more than one at all.

TV

Hmm... in North America, Grischuk and Platov, IMO, are very underrated. Probably the best Ice Dancers ever to compete, they don't get the respect they deserve. They had a 4 year winning streak, and some people still place them at such a low level. I regard them as the most techinical stunning pair ever, and the best ever.

TV

to the dragon

Dear Dragon,


Thank you for pointing out our disagreements in such a positive way. I appreciate your representing "your opinion vs. my opinion" in a you said "A, B, C, D Happened" when I see it as "W, X, Y, Z" fashion.

Too many time on the boards it's " You're such an idiot for feeling that way. You must be ignorant when it comes to skating!"

My OPINION is that many of the World placements where Bourne and Kratz were placed 3rd or lower, often times they should have ranked higher. Once again, just the way I see it. I've often thought that many of the teams that placed above them skated as if they were skating for a soap opera (daytime saga, for all those that don't know what 'soaps' are) Way overwrought and melodramatic.

Olympic Medal #1...... I thought B7K should have taken the Bronze BEHIND A&P. Though I respect G&P, I felt their dancing was overwhelmed by the overemoting and bad acting. I mean, who can pay attention to "quiet skates" when BOTH partners look as if they are going through labor pains on ice?

Olympic Medal #2..... THough the Luthiuanians may have a legitimate claim to the bronze, I thought the Italian's Mistakes were ever so much more substantial than the Canadians. BASED ON THE PLACEMENTS, I would have switched the Italians and B&K. ( Side note: I didn't think the Russians PROGRAM was so hot for the Olympics. Lovely skaters with great technique, but a program that left me cold.)

I see Ice Dancing as the perfect blend of Technical and Presentation. I have always felt that overemoting and "gnashing of teeth and knitting of brow" really distracts from the total performance.

THis is where I think Victor and Shae Lynn really excelled. THey alwasy bring a balance of good emotional expression and tight and precise technical abilities. As for thier Riverdance olympic program, it is a non-diputed fact that the judges stated clearly that they WOULD NOT medal if they kept this program for competition. While not widly my favorite program that they have performed, it was inventive, lively, moved with terrific speed and brought a new "look" to the ice dancing arena.

So there you have it, MY OPINION ( THis is NOT directed at you Dragon, you were completely appropriate in your comments.)


God love Paula for giving us a forum where we can all express our thoughts and feelings with honor and respect for our other posters. Happy holidays all.

Okay, now i understand your opinion on the olys. I disagree though, since i think G&P had the most difficult program of the comp, and performed wonderfully.

Still though, I don't see how B&K should be 3-4 time world champions.

TV

Boy, am I late getting into this thread...........my nominee for "Most underrated skater" would be Petra Barna, who won the bronze Olympic medal in 92........he never had a triple axel that was consistent, but did land a quad in competition. He had a quiet elegance on the ice that reminded me very much of my all time fav, Paul Wylie. He tried to make his mark in pros, but never seemed to put out the goods when they counted........a wonderful stylist..........42

I agree with a previous poster. Krist Y., is figure skating Olympic Gold Medal personafied. She was/is grace and elegance and never appeared to disappoint. She skated to all kinds of music and had her very own style. I have always enjoyed her skating and she continued to keep her jump arsenal even when she turned pro. Thumbs up for KristiMom.

show 42 said:

Boy, am I late getting into this thread...........my nominee for "Most underrated skater" would be Petra Barna, who won the bronze Olympic medal in 92........he never had a triple axel that was consistent, but did land a quad in competition. He had a quiet elegance on the ice that reminded me very much of my all time fav, Paul Wylie. He tried to make his mark in pros, but never seemed to put out the goods when they counted........a wonderful stylist..........42

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!!!!!!!!! I must agree! I've seen his vids from soulseek, and i think he was the most interesting skater of the time in terms of men. I was listening though, and Hamilton made it sound like he would only win because most of the panel was Eastern Euro. I was like .

TV

The most underrated skaters were Usova and Zhulin. They were an amazing team and they should have won '91 worlds and the '92 OGM. They should have never been placed behind the Duschenays.

Not Emanuel and Fumie!!!! I guess we can remove their names from this category now.

B&K

As for thier Riverdance olympic program, it is a non-diputed fact that the judges stated clearly that they WOULD NOT medal if they kept this program for competition.

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When did this occur? I loved their Riverdance program and they were so cheated of the bronze medal in 98. Their program was way more exciting and well performed than A/P. A/P's R&J was so boring I couldn't believe they edged out B&K.

What was so controversial about B/K's Riverdance?

Boy, am I late getting into this thread...........my nominee for "Most underrated skater" would be Petra Barna, >>

OMG! I LOVE Barna!! I had such a mad crush on him!! He just seemed like such a sweetie!

soogar said:

The most underrated skaters were Usova and Zhulin. They were an amazing team and they should have won '91 worlds and the '92 OGM. They should have never been placed behind the Duschenays.

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ITA about '91 Worlds. I didn't see the OD's or CD's from '92, and I thought Klimova and Ponomorenko were amazing. But I never could understand how Usova and Zhulin could ever be behind the Duschenays.

Re: B&K

egskater0003 said:

When did this occur? I loved their Riverdance program and they were so cheated of the bronze medal in 98. Their program was way more exciting and well performed than A/P. A/P's R&J was so boring I couldn't believe they edged out B&K.

What was so controversial about B/K's Riverdance?

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Because it's full of posing and is insanely easy? I don't see where the difficulty is. Pasha said she could have learned that FD in 5 mintues (I say this, not because what she said is neccessarily true, but just how other ice dancers viewed the program).

A&P's R&J is one of my favorite FD's of all time. The choreography was perfection, and the program just flowed. I can never take my eyes off it.

hockeyfan228 said:

ITA about '91 Worlds. I didn't see the OD's or CD's from '92, and I thought Klimova and Ponomorenko were amazing. But I never could understand how Usova and Zhulin could ever be behind the Duschenays.

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I agree totally about the Dischenays. I watch their programs and am . I honestly don't see what was so great about them.

TV

Okay, first of all...PETR BARNA, not Petra! (Petra, I would think, would be a woman!) No, I don't think he's underrated, I just wanted to correct the spelling, as it jumped out at me as I was re-reading this thread!!

Although I was never a major fan of his, and still am not, I am still sticking by Todd Eldredge (who had EVERYTHING but the quad, and that missing jump had people jumping his butt for years).

I also agree with those who put in Lu Chen...total beauty and grace, in a class of her own, I think.

How about Brasseur and Eisler? They were known as the 'tricksters', but they had the speed, they had the edges, and often, the emotion and artistry as well.

How about Maria Butyrskaya? (Another non-fave of mine, but come on, she did win a Worlds)...the few times I ever saw her hold her nerves in check for a clean program, she had some nice moments.

I think Nicole Bobek was too undertrained (usually) and too unprepared (usually) and too inconsistent (mostly) to be considered underrated. The few times she held it together, she, like Butyrskaya, was rewarded.

Paul Wylie, anyone? Yeah, another inconsistant one....but how about the 1991 (? maybe 90) nationals, when his brilliance and '6.0's lost out to Eldredge because of the different weighting of the scores.

Yuka Sato?? Yeah, true skating fans know her, and fully appreciate her, as the 'skater's skater'....non-skating fans don't know her from Midori Ito!

Takeshi Honda...he IS inconsistent, but hey, the guy is 22, 23? And he's been on the international scene since he was 14. WOW.

And, although this thread seems to have turned into the 'Kulik's Krew' vs. the 'Anti-Ilia's....I think Kulik also...just because my god! The guy is talented as heck, still has great jumps, great amplitude, feet just a few notches below Browning's, and WOW, is still in his mid-20's. I agree with all who wish he would be back on SOI...I have front row tickets, and would LOVE to see him! I had kind of forgotten him somewhat, but this year has rejuvenated my interest!

Just a few more I thought I'd throw out here!

Kasey

thvudragon said:

!!!!!!!!! I must agree! I've seen his vids from soulseek, and i think he was the most interesting skater of the time in terms of men. I was listening though, and Hamilton made it sound like he would only win because most of the panel was Eastern Euro. I was like .

TV

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Kinda, but keep in mind, I don't think he was considered a frontrunner for a gold medal at that point prior to the competition because he skated so early in the SP (before others had faltered) and was, IIRC, 5th(?) in '91. The hyped Oly frontrunners were considered (rightly or wrongly) Browning, Petrenko, Bowman, and possibly Todd.

That being said, Petr had also just defeated Petrenko at Europeans, so it's safe to say he was pretty popular with the Euro judges who did love his artistry and the marks showed it (not a negative thing). Frankly, his artistry was popular with everyone but while I think the 3-axel technicians like Browning & Petrenko were given a lot of the media hype, artists like Petr and Paul were going to get respect and big scores from judges as well in terms of artistry.

I think Scott was trying to say (somewhat unsuccessfully) that although Barna didn't have a 3x combo in the like most men, he had great style which appealed to European judges that had shown that they liked his dramatic style. He also added that he thought Barna's SP combo was more difficult than a 3x combo.

I mean I didn't take Scott's Euro comments as negative against Petr. I think Petrenko choked big time, and I would have given Barna the silver over him even with the fall. I love that Hamlet program except for the last 30 secs or so.

A&P's R&J is one of my favorite FD's of all time. The choreography was perfection, and the program just flowed. I can never take my eyes off it.

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That program is one of the few dance programs that I cannot take my eyes off of. One of my favorites ever. I like B&K but A&P were absolutely stunning and made Riverdance look juniorish.

I think G&P were absolutely brilliant as well. I think they made difficult things look so easy and flow so fast. I thought their excitement & energy were contagious and I felt it even when I was watching them on tv.


I love Jeff Buttle and Matt Savoie. Two of the few skaters that I could watch for 4:30 minutes with NO jumps and still be mesmerized. Lambiel is another. I'm so glad Jeff is getting some attention this year.

Sorry, double post