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Thread: Cohen's practice sessions updates?

  1. #106
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rtureck View Post
    BTW, what happen to all the claims from some Sasha fans over the years that if she stands up no one can beat her. Evidently a little 16 y/o call Nagasu beat a Sasha who stood up.
    I'm not sure who said vertical Sasha was unbeatable other than Scott Hamilton and I"m not sure that's what he said. (I try to tune him out, frankly. )

    Anyway, Nagasu is hardly some "little 16 year old" from nowhere. She's a past US champ who's, IMO, the biggest talent in US skating apart from Sasha. It's very possible she'll win the whole thing and if she skated up to her potential (and others messed up) she could even medal in Vancouver.

    Then again, who knows who will hit everything and who won't? I think she and Sasha are the perfect combo of innocent and experienced sheer talent and star power for Vancouver. But it all depends on how they skate tomorrow! :sheesh:

    I've been very cautious not to predict anything where Sasha is concerned. My only beef has been with all those who were so eager to predict that she would fail utterly or not even show up. Some of them are apparently too busy to "show up" here and eat their crow.

    What she's done is so risky and amazing. Somehow I'm thinking she'll do just fine with Moonlight Sonata. She's been skating it for a year in SOI so there's gotta be some comfort level there. (I know it's greatly revised, but still... "when she heard the familiar notes..." and all that.) Plus, I think the first skate had to be the hardest. GO, SASHA!!!!!

    AND GO, MIRAI AND ASHLEY!

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    :My only beef has been with all those who were so eager to predict that she would fail utterly or not even show up. Some of them are apparently too busy to "show up" here and eat their crow.
    I will eat mine, and with great relish.

    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...postcount=1897

  3. #108
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Here is her 3/3 in pratice

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgOva...eature=related

    It actually looks fully rotated, but she double foots it which usually is counted as a downgrade under CoP. I love how she is taking her time with her jumps though, and how high her jumps look in practice...I think the time off helped her get back to basics, she looks like the little girl from 2000.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    Here is her 3/3 in pratice

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgOva...eature=related

    It actually looks fully rotated, but she double foots it which usually is counted as a downgrade under CoP.
    According to other posters, her 3-3 was very UR & two footed. It's just hard to see due to the poor quality of the image. I confirmed it via a friend who was at the practice session.

    Her Lutz is also definitely a noticeable flutz to people at the practice session, so she is baffled as to how she didn't get an edge call. I haven't seen any skating this week at all, so I couldn't say otherwise.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I will eat mine, and with great relish.

    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...postcount=1897
    Oh, right - et tu, Mathe!

    You may rise.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    I've been very cautious not to predict anything where Sasha is concerned...

    What she's done is so risky and amazing....She's been skating it for a year in SOI so there's gotta be some comfort level there.
    Not to pick on you, SS, just stealing your train of thought here, but I am getting a bit tired of folks saying how amazing this comeback is. Sasha left FS on her own accord. She did not have some major injury or illness that threatened her career, She did not have surgery (unless it was of the cosmetic kind...) She kept on training and skating in shows, so while she was not training full out or competing, she was training and staying in shape on a regular basis. I think the break did her good and she obviously kept up certain skills, whether or not she did them in front of an audience. She and other show skaters have stated in some ways touring is harder than competing, so I am sure she learned a few invaluable lessons along the way that she is drawing from now.

    I admit I was skeptical of a comeback only because we never got to see hard evidence of what Sasha was doing when no one is looking. But I always believed if she did comeback, she'd be as she is and she would not comeback just for the sake of seeing what she could do-in other words: she would not have comeback if she thought she could not contend for Gold, at Nationals and at the Olys. I just feel people are eating up into this,"OMG! Risky and amazing, never done before comeback!" as much as they were eating up into the "heroic effort" she put forth at the 2006 Games for not, I dunno, quitting and leaving the ice when she fell on her 1st two jump passes.

    That said, I agree the route Sasha has taken in coming back has been less than ideal for a skater who is not known for competitive nerves, and she should be commanded for trying as hard as she has and being so well prepared. However, we seem to be going through a rebuilding stage and I feel our skaters are a couple years away from being really strong again, so this is a year where a talented veteran like Sasha can get away with not being at the top of her game. The chips will fall as they will tomorrow, but no matter what happens, I truly hope Rachael, Ashley, Caroline and most especially Mirai continue to progress and stay healthy as the next Oly cycle begins.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKFSfan View Post
    That said, I agree the route Sasha has taken in coming back has been less than ideal for a skater who is not known for competitive nerves, and she should be commanded for trying as hard as she has and being so well prepared. However, we seem to be going through a rebuilding stage and I feel our skaters are a couple years away from being really strong again, so this is a year where a talented veteran like Sasha can get away with not being at the top of her game. The chips will fall as they will tomorrow, but no matter what happens, I truly hope Rachael, Ashley, Caroline and most especially Mirai continue to progress and stay healthy as the next Oly cycle begins.
    You said it right there. Nothing to add.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKFSfan View Post
    Not to pick on you, SS, just stealing your train of thought here, but I am getting a bit tired of folks saying how amazing this comeback is. Sasha left FS on her own accord. She did not have some major injury or illness that threatened her career, She did not have surgery (unless it was of the cosmetic kind...) She kept on training and skating in shows, so while she was not training full out or competing, she was training and staying in shape on a regular basis. I think the break did her good and she obviously kept up certain skills, whether or not she did them in front of an audience. She and other show skaters have stated in some ways touring is harder than competing, so I am sure she learned a few invaluable lessons along the way that she is drawing from now.

    I admit I was skeptical of a comeback only because we never got to see hard evidence of what Sasha was doing when no one is looking. But I always believed if she did comeback, she'd be as she is and she would not comeback just for the sake of seeing what she could do-in other words: she would not have comeback if she thought she could not contend for Gold, at Nationals and at the Olys. I just feel people are eating up into this,"OMG! Risky and amazing, never done before comeback!" as much as they were eating up into the "heroic effort" she put forth at the 2006 Games for not, I dunno, quitting and leaving the ice when she fell on her 1st two jump passes.

    That said, I agree the route Sasha has taken in coming back has been less than ideal for a skater who is not known for competitive nerves, and she should be commanded for trying as hard as she has and being so well prepared. However, we seem to be going through a rebuilding stage and I feel our skaters are a couple years away from being really strong again, so this is a year where a talented veteran like Sasha can get away with not being at the top of her game. The chips will fall as they will tomorrow, but no matter what happens, I truly hope Rachael, Ashley, Caroline and most especially Mirai continue to progress and stay healthy as the next Oly cycle begins.
    This just seems perverse to me. If it's such a snooze, name another skater who's made a comeback to Olympic-year competition after four years away from all competition!

    Did you see Sasha in SOI the past few years? There's a big difference between show Sasha and competition Sasha. She can't get by on spirals, Charlottes and salchows at Nats (or the Olympics, for pete's sake)! Even her body is different (at least 15 pounds different, in my estimation!).

    Sasha is a competitor at heart, IMHO. Not a killer champion in the sense of Kwan or Plushenko - but one who's more alive on the edge in that electric atmosphere than anywhere else. She's said (as quoted in other threads) that she's back for that thrill. Frankly, I think perhaps she also needed this attempt to keep her name and career alive.

    You are in a very tiny group if you think Sasha is an obvious contender for the OGM against Yu Na (not to mention the other top prospects)! I mean, anything can happen, but it would be a total stunner. Her age alone puts her at a disadvantage, let alone her rustiness, her inexperience with recent COP changes, the judges' not having seen her for years...

    It's not even likely (although far more possible) that she can beat Rachael and Mirai, both razor-sharp from competing during the past four years when Sasha was doing 1 and 2-triple programs, living on a bus/in hotels/without access to good gyms, and eating like a normal person! Rachael is no Sasha, but OTOH she's well schooled in COP and her FP has beaten Yu Na's! Mirai is a huge talent that may be peaking at just the right time. Ashley is also a big talent who's shown herself capable of winning the FP. Nationals is anything but a walkover for Sasha. She got great press for showing up prepared and doing a strong SP ... and all that will evaporate tomorrow night if she doesn't make the Olympic team! Maybe for you that doesn't count as taking a risk. I disagree!!!

    I don't mean to be grouchy, but when you shrink the challenge she's undertaken, you shrink both her and her competition, and that's not sporting. Me, I'm just watching in amazement at this young lady's willpower, talent, and readiness to let everything she's already achieved be redefined in the light of 7 -- or 10, or 14 -- minutes on slippery ice.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I will eat mine, and with great relish.

    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...postcount=1897
    There will be a lot of us sitting with you at the Crow Banquet Table!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    <snip>
    Sasha is a competitor at heart, IMHO. Not a killer champion in the sense of Kwan or Plushenko - but one who's more alive on the edge in that electric atmosphere than anywhere else. She's said (as quoted in other threads) that she's back for that thrill. Frankly, I think perhaps she also needed this attempt to keep her name and career alive.
    <snip>
    I think you are getting to the core of the truth about this comeback.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    This just seems perverse to me. If it's such a snooze, name another skater who's made a comeback to Olympic-year competition after four years away from all competition!

    Did you see Sasha in SOI the past few years? There's a big difference between show Sasha and competition Sasha. She can't get by on spirals, Charlottes and salchows at Nats (or the Olympics, for pete's sake)! Even her body is different (at least 15 pounds different, in my estimation!).

    Sasha is a competitor at heart, IMHO. Not a killer champion in the sense of Kwan or Plushenko - but one who's more alive on the edge in that electric atmosphere than anywhere else. She's said (as quoted in other threads) that she's back for that thrill. Frankly, I think perhaps she also needed this attempt to keep her name and career alive.

    You are in a very tiny group if you think Sasha is an obvious contender for the OGM against Yu Na (not to mention the other top prospects)! I mean, anything can happen, but it would be a total stunner. Her age alone puts her at a disadvantage, let alone her rustiness, her inexperience with recent COP changes, the judges' not having seen her for years...

    It's not even likely (although far more possible) that she can beat Rachael and Mirai, both razor-sharp from competing during the past four years when Sasha was doing 1 and 2-triple programs, living on a bus/in hotels/without access to good gyms, and eating like a normal person! Rachael is no Sasha, but OTOH she's well schooled in COP and her FP has beaten Yu Na's! Mirai is a huge talent that may be peaking at just the right time. Ashley is also a big talent who's shown herself capable of winning the FP. Nationals is anything but a walkover for Sasha. She got great press for showing up prepared and doing a strong SP ... and all that will evaporate tomorrow night if she doesn't make the Olympic team! Maybe for you that doesn't count as taking a risk. I disagree!!!

    I don't mean to be grouchy, but when you shrink the challenge she's undertaken, you shrink both her and her competition, and that's not sporting. Me, I'm just watching in amazement at this young lady's willpower, talent, and readiness to let everything she's already achieved be redefined in the light of 7 -- or 10, or 14 -- minutes on slippery ice.
    Well said , I agree with almost all of this. Sasha looks so frail out on the ice I'm seriously wondering if she will have the stamina to get through the LP. Rachael, Mirai, and Ashley are all very physically strong and don't seem to have endurance issues in the LP (other issues-yes, but not regarding getting too tired). Messing up in the FS is just the name of the game for any skater over the age of 20 (Sebestyen, Poykio, Suguri, Lepisto, Kostner, Czisny) and I have no doubt it is related to lacking stamina. As you get older, your metabolism goes slower and you get tired more easily, Mirai even noticed this as a fifteen year old! Even Joannie McMuscles messes up the FS quite a bit, it's probably because she's 24. Sasha has that working against her. I was amazed she did such a good SP but 2 1/2 minutes and 3 jumps is a lot less than 4 minutes and 7 jumps, especially after 4 years off.
    Last edited by silverlake22; 01-23-2010 at 09:49 AM.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Well said , I agree with almost all of this. Sasha looks so frail out on the ice I'm seriously wondering if she will have the stamina to get through the LP.
    Do you seriously think Sasha Cohen would show up for a competition not in good enough shape to make it through a long program? You don't know her very well. I have no idea how she'll do, and I'm not going to assume she'll be flawless, she never has been before. But I also know that she's not going to compete just to embarrass herself by being in less than stellar condition. That's just not Sasha's style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Eyes View Post
    Do you seriously think Sasha Cohen would show up for a competition not in good enough shape to make it through a long program? You don't know her very well. I have no idea how she'll do, and I'm not going to assume she'll be flawless, she never has been before. But I also know that she's not going to compete just to embarrass herself by being in less than stellar condition. That's just not Sasha's style.
    That's not really what I meant. Sasha looks great (maybe a little too thin but still in great shape), but you can be in great shape and still have endurance issues. It's also just in comparison to who she's really competing against. If it was Caroline and Alissa then it wouldn't matter, but Rachael, Ashley and Mirai are probably the three most athletic senior ladies competing at this competition, and that's all I was trying to point out. It doesn't mean that Sasha won't go clean and that the other three will, it's just more something that could potentially make it hard for Cohen.

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    I guess we'll soon find out.

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    Guys, yesterday's practice notes from Minnesota Ice. :(

    I don't think I'm going to be able to bear watching the LP live. x_x

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    1st off...I apologize if I seemed overly irritated last night, I had spent a few hours (and several drinks!) at a fundraiser for Leukemia/Lymphoma. Normally the idea Sasha's come back is this huge, impossible, out of the realm of any possibility just elicits an eye rolling reaction from me, so I was being over sensitive last night.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    This just seems perverse to me. If it's such a snooze, name another skater who's made a comeback to Olympic-year competition after four years away from all competition!
    Plushy? He had a serious injury and was off ice for a while there. Todd Elderedge is the only one I can think of off the top of my head who was in Sasha's shoes in 2002-he also left skating on his own accord for two seasons and came back for another chance at Olympic Glory. Just for the record, I never said this comeback was a snooze. I do believe that what Sasha has accomplished thus far is respectable, admirable and very inspirational.

    Did you see Sasha in SOI the past few years? There's a big difference between show Sasha and competition Sasha. She can't get by on spirals, Charlottes and salchows at Nats (or the Olympics, for pete's sake)! Even her body is different (at least 15 pounds different, in my estimation!).
    Yes, I saw her on SOI. I saw her improve on her edging, most especially her speed and presentation skills. It would've been nice for her to have worked on her consistency of jumps harder than a salchow, but we do not know what she worked on in the off-tour season or on the side. She and her cast mates spoke of pushing herself, working to improve on her tech side. We saw glimpses of it in Moonlight Sonata, and her footwork in the group numbers showed her improvement.

    Sasha is a competitor at heart, IMHO. Not a killer champion in the sense of Kwan or Plushenko - but one who's more alive on the edge in that electric atmosphere than anywhere else. She's said (as quoted in other threads) that she's back for that thrill. Frankly, I think perhaps she also needed this attempt to keep her name and career alive.
    I agree, being an elite skater is more than a full time job, it's their LIFE, and the sacrifices the athletes make to pursue their goals are huge. Look how often we hear of splitting up families/moving away from their families at a young age, life long injuries as result of training/competing, etc. There is a huge drive to succeed at this level, and I have no doubt that is a part of the allure of being an elite athlete: you must have that killer instinct and desire to be #1. But unless she wins a medal at the Games, I don't think it's going to change her career/popularity much. She may get a few red carpet event invites or guest spots on TV, but figure skating is in a lull right now, and few become household names like they did in the past.

    You are in a very tiny group if you think Sasha is an obvious contender for the OGM against Yu Na....
    I don't think Sasha will be considered a front runner for Gold as she was in 2006. I think she is a podium contender, will be considered as one in the running and you never know what may happen...thinking of Sarah Hughes, 2002...

    Maybe for you that doesn't count as taking a risk. I disagree!!!...I don't mean to be grouchy, but when you shrink the challenge she's undertaken, you shrink both her and her competition, and that's not sporting.
    I have no intent to downplay Sasha's comeback. I know she is taking on a big risk-both in her health and popularity. I truly believe she poured sweat, blood and tears into this. She herself has admitted she underestimated how hard it was to come back, but I think she has really put forth a huge effort and it is evident. I just feel she was hardly at a huge disadvantage: she was not injured or completely away from the sport/training. Statements from her castmates and other FS insiders had her practicing all her triples and 3/3s in 2008 to get ready for a potential comeback. There's no doubt that touring is not the same as training for competition, but there are benefits-even Sasha herself has stated she's been forced to work on her footwork for group numbers to keep up with the rest. Her spins/spirals have always been her forte, and she still included the same ones we saw Thursday in her exhibitions on tour. Her weakness has always been in the jumps, and yes, that is a HUGE part and she clearly had to work very hard to get back to where she is today, no downplaying that at all.

    On the other hand, you look at Plushy-he had a serious injury and was off ice for a while. His comeback is HUGE for Russia since their singles skating has been in a lull, but I guess because he has always been a strong jumper, people aren't heralding is comeback as something miraculous, but as the King has returned to save Russian skating. So, it does happen, the lure of Olympic Gold is huge, no doubt!

    As for the rest of the US Ladies...I have huge hopes for Rachael, Mirai and Ashley. I think they are all on the cusp of breaking through and this may not be their year. If Caroline can make some changes, and Christina progresses as she has, we have a very strong group heading into the next quad. I would NEVER downplay their talent and depth, I just feel they are a step below the top group of Yu-Na, Mao, Miki, Joannie, Sasha, even Akiko right now.

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