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Thread: Championship Ladies SP

  1. #1006
    Custom Title dwiggin3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    First and second place will go to the Olympics, whoever it is. Nothing else counts.
    I'm beginning to think at this point, that might be the fairest way to go. Both 1-4 skated good SP (some better than others) and there is not much of a spread in points - at least not so much that could not be made up.

    I guess personally, I'm over Sasha. Does she have the right to try for a comeback, sure. Do I think it's fair - it's not my decision. Do I personally wish she wouldn't complicate an already difficult decision between Nagasu, Flatt and Wagner (my top 3 at least), yes.

    I guess I feel she had her time and it's time for others to have the olympic experience. For me, it's not about placement so much as it is about allowing them the experience of being an olympian.

  2. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by UM84 View Post
    You have to remember they don't care about feelings, they only care about winning. If they think sending a 4th-5th place Sasha to the Olympics gives them the best chance of winning a medal.... they will do it.
    And as I said, I think that's a shame. Sasha is only a band-aid for the discipline for just one year, not even that (unless she decides that she loves competing that she sticks around, which would be really awesome, actually).

    And I'm not talking about feelings -- I'm talking about rebuilding a program. I think we're all forgetting here, with the exception of Sasha and Alissa, that almost all the top ladies are still in the 16-18 year old range. I think that Mirai is so charming, Rachael is so freakin' smart and Ashley is so beautiful and graceful. I think if you gave them time they would be fantastic.

    Yu-na Kim, is the only top Korean skater right now and I really really doubt she'll be around for Sochi. The Japanese have a bunch of retirements coming too (maybe Mao will stick around, and yes there's the very lovely Kankako). I really could see the U.S. ladies breaking through in the next few years.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 01-22-2010 at 04:26 PM.

  3. #1008
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    Seems like Sasha's PCS should be higher in the Long Program. Internationally, Sasha would definitely get much higher PCSs than any of the current US ladies.

  4. #1009
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    Quote Originally Posted by UM84 View Post
    You have to remember they don't care about feelings, they only care about winning. If they think sending a 4th-5th place Sasha to the Olympics gives them the best chance of winning a medal.... they will do it.
    Exactly and I am sure that in Sasha's case they will look at the potential of improvement. Unlike the other girls, Sasha is competing in nationals as her first event. The girls had plenty of opportunities to establish a reputation for themselves on the Grand Prix and hadn't. Even though Ashley made the Grand Prix final, her performance there was not very good. IMO, the performance issues that Sasha had in her SP was more due to nerves than lack of training. The overall impression that the commentators were presenting was that everyone was so impressed with how in shape and fit Sasha was. No doubt the US committee will take that into account. The only US lady who has proved her consistency is Rachel Flatt and her skating doesn't make an impression on the judges. Sasha OTOH is a star and has that intangible quality that can make her very competitive with the top girls.

    I don't see the judges putting Sasha in 3rd or 4rth place if she gives a normal Sasha performance (1 fall). IMO she worked out some of the nervousness in her SP and the scores had to give her some reassurance. It probably was nerve wracking to go out there cold with no competitions or idea how she would be received by the judges. They could have easily dinged her on her mistakes but were lenient so it should give her some comfort to know that she has some leeway to make the team. Is it fair- probably not- but US ladies is in the dumps with no real star to generate medals or interest.

  5. #1010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    And as I said, I think that's a shame. Sasha is only a band-aid for the discipline for just one year, not even that (unless she decides that she loves competing that she sticks around, which would be really awesome, actually).

    And I'm not talking about feelings -- I'm talking about rebuilding a program. I think we're all forgetting here, with the exception of Sasha and Alissa, that almost all the top ladies are still in the 16-18 year old range. I think that Mirai is so charming, Rachael is so freakin' smart and Ashley is so beautiful and graceful. I think if you gave them time they would be fantastic.

    Yu-na Kim, is the only top Korean skater right now and I really really doubt she'll be around for Sochi. The Japanese have a bunch of retirements coming too (maybe Mao will stick around, and yes there's the very lovely Kankako). I really could see the U.S. ladies breaking through in the next few years.

    They will rebuild after the Olympics, that want to win NOW. I would hope they wouldn't think in the lines of "Let's just send the top 2 and start rebuilding". I would hope they would want to send are best, and Sasha is our best right now. Unless she has an epic meltdown I don't see how they would leave her off the team.

  6. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by UM84 View Post
    They will rebuild after the Olympics, that want to win NOW. I would hope they wouldn't think in the lines of "Let's just send the top 2 and start rebuilding". I would hope they would want to send are best, and Sasha is our best right now. Unless she has an epic meltdown I don't see how they would leave her off the team.
    I guess you and I have to disagree. I just don't see how they could put her on the team unless she wins. I don't care she has Olympic experience - she's a huge question mark with a history of basket-case-nerves and frankly, I think USFSA would look desperate (or even more so than they are) if they sent her unless she won Nationals.

  7. #1012
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwiggin3 View Post
    I'm beginning to think at this point, that might be the fairest way to go. Both 1-4 skated good SP (some better than others) and there is not much of a spread in points - at least not so much that could not be made up.

    I guess personally, I'm over Sasha. Does she have the right to try for a comeback, sure. Do I think it's fair - it's not my decision. Do I personally wish she wouldn't complicate an already difficult decision between Nagasu, Flatt and Wagner (my top 3 at least), yes.

    I guess I feel she had her time and it's time for others to have the olympic experience. For me, it's not about placement so much as it is about allowing them the experience of being an olympian.
    Well said, I couldn't agree more. I see sending Sasha to the Olympics as giving Americans false hope, she'll just go to that one competition and retire again and then we'll be back at square one. I would be really interested to see how Ashley and the new-and-improved Mirai would place at the Olympics and Worlds, but if Sasha is sent instead, we won't get insight on this and Wagner and Nagasu will just end up wasting time at Junior Worlds again when really Christina, Agnes, and Kiri should be the ones going. For Mirai to come in 1st, 2nd or 3rd at Jr. Worlds this year doesn't tell us anything, but if Mirai went to senior Worlds and finished in the top 10, or out of the top 10, managed to beat or not beat the good European ladies like Laura, Kiira, Carolina, Sarah, etc that WOULD tell us something. But say Sasha goes to the Olympics and Mirai goes to Jr. Worlds again, and then next year has a GP event with Yuna and the other with Mao, Miki, and Joannie, we will still have no idea where she stands internationally. So annoying. But I know Mirai can get 1st or 2nd here if she puts her mind to it!

    We get an idea of how skaters place internationally through GP events, but as we've seen so many times, it really depends who is at what competition and how those people perform. NHK this year was a very weak competition this year, and Ashley went to the final but was outscored by Rachael and Alissa who didn't make it.

  8. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwiggin3 View Post
    I guess you and I have to disagree. I just don't see how they could put her on the team unless she wins. I don't care she has Olympic experience - she's a huge question mark with a history of basket-case-nerves and frankly, I think USFSA would look desperate (or even more so than they are) if they sent her unless she won Nationals.
    I don't think it is any more desperate than wanting to send Michelle Kwan on the basis of a trial skate and then she turned out so injured that she had to withdraw from the Olympics. They want to send the best team. Ideally, Sasha will skate in Worlds as well after the games so they can finally qualify 3 girls for next year and rebuild the program. As it stands right now, there are a lot of up and comers but no one is really standing out. You can either send two unknowns who will not generate viewer interest or revenues (both of which are important for the upcoming 4 years) or you send Sasha who can generate that casual viewer interest. You have a situation like they had last year at Worlds with Alyssa and Rachel at the Olympics which are watched by so many people- well who would even want to watch nationals coverage over the next 4 years? It's also embarrassing as well.

  9. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by soogar View Post
    I don't think it is any more desperate than wanting to send Michelle Kwan on the basis of a trial skate and then she turned out so injured that she had to withdraw from the Olympics. They want to send the best team. Ideally, Sasha will skate in Worlds as well after the games so they can finally qualify 3 girls for next year and rebuild the program. As it stands right now, there are a lot of up and comers but no one is really standing out. You can either send two unknowns who will not generate viewer interest or revenues (both of which are important for the upcoming 4 years) or you send Sasha who can generate that casual viewer interest. You have a situation like they had last year at Worlds with Alyssa and Rachel at the Olympics which are watched by so many people- well who would even want to watch nationals coverage over the next 4 years. It's also embarrassing as well.
    I don't disagree with the validity of this logic - it makes sense. I just like my logic better.

    Also, I think we were in a different situation with MK. I can't recall off hand, but she hadn't been off the ice (comp) for 4 years. I also think personally, there is a huge difference between Kwan and Cohen - I mean for me, Kwan is iconic.

  10. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by soogar View Post
    I don't think it is any more desperate than wanting to send Michelle Kwan on the basis of a trial skate and then she turned out so injured that she had to withdraw from the Olympics. They want to send the best team. Ideally, Sasha will skate in Worlds as well after the games so they can finally qualify 3 girls for next year and rebuild the program. As it stands right now, there are a lot of up and comers but no one is really standing out. You can either send two unknowns who will not generate viewer interest or revenues (both of which are important for the upcoming 4 years) or you send Sasha who can generate that casual viewer interest. You have a situation like they had last year at Worlds with Alyssa and Rachel at the Olympics which are watched by so many people- well who would even want to watch nationals coverage over the next 4 years? It's also embarrassing as well.
    Does anyone know if Sasha has said anything regarding if she will go to worlds or not? I tend to think she only cares about the Olympics, and if she makes the team, will retire again after, but that is just speculation. Anyone know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by soogar View Post
    I don't think it is any more desperate than wanting to send Michelle Kwan on the basis of a trial skate and then she turned out so injured that she had to withdraw from the Olympics. They want to send the best team. Ideally, Sasha will skate in Worlds as well after the games so they can finally qualify 3 girls for next year and rebuild the program. As it stands right now, there are a lot of up and comers but no one is really standing out. You can either send two unknowns who will not generate viewer interest or revenues (both of which are important for the upcoming 4 years) or you send Sasha who can generate that casual viewer interest. You have a situation like they had last year at Worlds with Alyssa and Rachel at the Olympics which are watched by so many people- well who would even want to watch nationals coverage over the next 4 years? It's also embarrassing as well.
    That could be something they could tell Sasha, if we send you to the Olympics then you NEED to go to the worlds as well

  12. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Well said, I couldn't agree more. I see sending Sasha to the Olympics as giving Americans false hope, she'll just go to that one competition and retire again and then we'll be back at square one. I would be really interested to see how Ashley and the new-and-improved Mirai would place at the Olympics and Worlds, but if Sasha is sent instead, we won't get insight on this and Wagner and Nagasu will just end up wasting time at Junior Worlds again when really Christina, Agnes, and Kiri should be the ones going. For Mirai to come in 1st, 2nd or 3rd at Jr. Worlds this year doesn't tell us anything, but if Mirai went to senior Worlds and finished in the top 10, or out of the top 10, managed to beat or not beat the good European ladies like Laura, Kiira, Carolina, Sarah, etc that WOULD tell us something. But say Sasha goes to the Olympics and Mirai goes to Jr. Worlds again, and then next year has a GP event with Yuna and the other with Mao, Miki, and Joannie, we will still have no idea where she stands internationally. So annoying. But I know Mirai can get 1st or 2nd here if she puts her mind to it!

    We get an idea of how skaters place internationally through GP events, but as we've seen so many times, it really depends who is at what competition and how those people perform. NHK this year was a very weak competition this year, and Ashley went to the final but was outscored by Rachael and Alissa who didn't make it.
    And also, there's something about the Olympics that really drives people to have their moment. We saw with Paul Wylie. We saw it with Sarah Hughes. These are people who were not considered to do much.

    On the other hand being written off could be a good thing...I can see it in Miari's candor with the media. SHE IS SICK of being written off and I think she's using that energy to prove herself.

    Also we have a precedent of what happens when you try to send "the country's biggest hope." Miki Ando was SIXTH in Nationals but was sent to Torino over Yukari Nakano. She went up there and ended up in 15th. I'm not say this will or will not happen with Sasha, but I'm simply saying that the Olympics is a wild beast and you can't make assumptions about how people will place.

  13. #1018
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    Maybe Four Continents should be put back into the equation. First place automatically goes. If 2nd place skates brilliantly, she should go too.

    But if 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place finishers have mediocre skates in the long, they should have a skate off at Four Continents, proving themselves in front of an international panel of judges.

  14. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by UM84 View Post
    That could be something they could tell Sasha, if we send you to the Olympics then you NEED to go to the worlds as well
    In 2006 Sasha did skate in Worlds. She didn't get the color medal she had hoped for but she and Kimmie sealed the deal for that 3rd spot.

    I'm not sure if Sasha would skate in Worlds- esp with all the hoopla that will come if she somehow medals (what if she gets gold). However she looked so happy to be on Nationals ice and she received such a wonderful reception that at this time I don't think that it would be an impossible notion that she would compete in worlds. I think if she pulls off a bronze medal at the games and the top skaters decide to skip Worlds she may give it a shot because there is no gold medal to "tarnish" (what a load of nonsense but people believe that) and she lacks a world title. It may not work out for her but she seems a lot tougher in dealing with her nerves than she has been in the past. With all the nervous tying of her skate laces, I was certain she was going to fall on her a$$ and she surprised me. I think she will only improve once her Olympic fate is sealed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    And also, there's something about the Olympics that really drives people to have their moment. We saw with Paul Wylie. We saw it with Sarah Hughes. These are people who were not considered to do much.
    .
    I wouldn't put Paul Wylie and Sarah Hughes together because Sarah had very good and consistent competitive results. I think Sasha is more likely to have an Olympic moment than Mirai. That is my gut feeling and Sasha has a back story that would be golden if she were to have this amazing Olympic moment and win gold.

    As for icons- I think Sasha is every bit as iconic as Michelle Kwan. I think she is much more appreciated now than she was when MK was around. The reception that she received and her performance level was so much better than the other girls even though that was not the best SP that she had ever skated. All those beautiful qualities in her skating really stand out and she actually looks much more secure on her blades than before.

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