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Thread: US Junior Ladies

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    US Junior Ladies

    I don't know much about most of the junior ladies, but I just looked at the SP protocols and something struck me as interesting:
    --Among the top 5 ladies, there is not a single underrotation or edge call listed.
    --Among all the junior ladies, there are only three underrotation, three ! calls and NO "e" calls.

    This is hard to believe, and I'm curious to know if we're seeing a new crop of young ladies whose coaches are actually insisting on proper technique and no cheats, or if the tech caller for this competition was either blind or a softie. I haven't seen any videos of this competition so I really don't know.
    Last edited by bigsisjiejie; 01-21-2010 at 01:41 AM.

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    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsisjiejie View Post
    I don't know much about most of the junior ladies, but I just looked at the SP protocols and something struck me as interesting:
    --Among the top 5 ladies, there is not a single underrotation or edge call listed.
    --Among all the junior ladies, there are only three underrotation, three ! calls and NO "e" calls.

    This is hard to believe, and I'm curious to know if we're seeing a new crop of young ladies whose coaches are actually insisting on proper technique and no cheats, or if the tech caller for this competition was either blind or a softie. I haven't seen any videos of this competition so I really don't know.
    I watched Agnes Z's (she's in first) program on Ice Network. Pretty impressive. She was very clean and seem to have the basics down. She has some qualities to work on, but I think that will come with time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I watched Agnes Z's (she's in first) program on Ice Network. Pretty impressive. She was very clean and seem to have the basics down. She has some qualities to work on, but I think that will come with time.
    Agnes has a lot of potential; her jumps are huuuge and seem to have mostly clean entrance edges (I think she might switch edges on the flip just a tiny bit), but man, she was slooooooooow. I think it's a Tom Z. thing as a lot of of his skaters (Flatt, Gilles, Mroz) seem to be on the slow side. I hope she works on that.

    I think Angela Wang showed a lot of potential as well (currently 3rd).

    Also, sadly, I think the reason there's no more edge calls is that not that many ladies tried 3Lzs. Also, US Nats isn't always the strictest about calling edge calls - a couple of years ago, Ashley Wagner never got one and we all know she has a major flutz.
    Last edited by oleada; 01-21-2010 at 08:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    Also, sadly, I think the reason there's no more edge calls is that not that many ladies tried 3Lzs. Also, US Nats isn't always the strictest about calling edge calls - a couple of years ago, Ashley Wagner never got one and we all know she has a major flutz.
    True, although IIRC not that many junior ladies ever really have solid 3Z's anyway. And now the potential downgrade or edge call for a marginal effort may lead many to not attempt it in competition anymore unless it's really solid. A great 3Lz carries a lot of weight at the junior level, and Agnes did hers in combo with +GOE's to boot. Hope to catch a video of this young lady sometime.

    True also about US Nats (and lower level competitions also) on not being very strict on technical calls...at least in the past. I was hoping this would change, as giving free passes for flawed jumps has not helped US ladies out when they hit the international comps. And the strict calling needs to start around juvie level--to nip any jump cheating and wrong edges in the bud, while they can still be fixed. Ditto for leg wraps and mule kicks.

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    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Junior Ladies used to be Senior Ladies with less speed/polish => All the same jumps, smaller, less secure but definitely lacking finishing school. Maybe a missing triple from a full set. Of course, there are up and down years in Juniors in terms of "owned" jumps, but they have typically been impressive and everyone can't wait for the Juniors to be Seniors and then only 1-2 slip through and have success....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Junior Ladies used to be Senior Ladies with less speed/polish => All the same jumps, smaller, less secure but definitely lacking finishing school. Maybe a missing triple from a full set. Of course, there are up and down years in Juniors in terms of "owned" jumps, but they have typically been impressive and everyone can't wait for the Juniors to be Seniors and then only 1-2 slip through and have success....
    The winner of the Jr. Title always seems to be a surprise...DeeDee last year, Alexe the year before, Mirai the year before that, Sandy in '05. I think this is because most juniors lack polish, so whoever lands the most triples wins.

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    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Last year seemed to be more of a "down" year technically for Juniors while this year is a more "up" year. There are cycles and waves of skaters where a group come up together and are strong and they move on to Senior and the group directly behind are a little weaker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    The winner of the Jr. Title always seems to be a surprise...DeeDee last year, Alexe the year before, Mirai the year before that, Sandy in '05. I think this is because most juniors lack polish, so whoever lands the most triples wins.
    DeeDee was a surprise because Ellie was the "favorite", alex was a SHOCK because everyone expected Angela to take it by a landslide, but Mirai was nowhere near a surprise because everyone knew it was either her or Caroline (that year's "favorite")

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    Originally Posted by iceminx
    DeeDee was a surprise because Ellie was the "favorite", alex was a SHOCK because everyone expected Angela to take it by a landslide, but Mirai was nowhere near a surprise because everyone knew it was either her or Caroline (that year's "favorite")
    No, I believe Mirai certainly was a huge surprise. If I remember correctly, she was a complete unknown before that year, as she had never made it to nationals before, while Caroline tore up the JGP and was definitely the favourite to win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by liketotally View Post
    No, I believe Mirai certainly was a huge surprise. If I remember correctly, she was a complete unknown before that year, as she had never made it to nationals before, while Caroline tore up the JGP and was definitely the favourite to win.
    Surprise to whom?

    Depends whether you were following only the skaters who had JGP assignments or were also following the ones who qualified through regionals and sectionals -- by scores or by also watching the programs. That was the year we first had access to videos of qualifying competitions through the precursor to IceNetwork and I remember being especially impressed with Nagasu's performances. Same reasons there was buzz about Zawadzki this year. Now we also occasionally get some stellar performances from summer club competitions via youtube.

    And of course people (other skaters, coaches, judges, hardcore California-based fans, etc.) who actually attended SWP and Pacific Coasts or skated at her rink had seen what she was capable of. Which is the kind of information that would always have been available to a small subset of people even before the Internet and before the JGP, but harder to compare the whole potential field.

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    Any news on Junior ladies practices, any long program standouts? Sometimes the Junior ladies jumps can be up and down.

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    Congrats to Agnes Zawadzki, Yasmin Siraj, and Lindsay Davis!! Nina Jiang pulled up all the way to 5th with a 3rd place free skate!! Kiri Baga's SP saved her big time, otherwise Nina would be the pewter medalist..

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Surprise to whom?

    Depends whether you were following only the skaters who had JGP assignments or were also following the ones who qualified through regionals and sectionals -- by scores or by also watching the programs. That was the year we first had access to videos of qualifying competitions through the precursor to IceNetwork and I remember being especially impressed with Nagasu's performances. Same reasons there was buzz about Zawadzki this year. Now we also occasionally get some stellar performances from summer club competitions via youtube.

    And of course people (other skaters, coaches, judges, hardcore California-based fans, etc.) who actually attended SWP and Pacific Coasts or skated at her rink had seen what she was capable of. Which is the kind of information that would always have been available to a small subset of people even before the Internet and before the JGP, but harder to compare the whole potential field.

    After Mirai's great regional skate, then sectionals, she was debuting with a lot of hype at nationals for having such a huge score -it was as if there were only 2 ladies entered in junior that year...does anyone remember what her regional score was? her program was even on youtube months in advance...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeCygne View Post
    Congrats to Agnes Zawadzki, Yasmin Siraj, and Lindsay Davis!! Nina Jiang pulled up all the way to 5th with a 3rd place free skate!! Kiri Baga's SP saved her big time, otherwise Nina would be the pewter medalist..

    Nina must have had a horrible SP to have ended up so low (for her) *sad*
    I hope she stays junior so she can WIN next season!
    Speaking of, what happened to Angela Wang who was in third? *sad again*

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    Quote Originally Posted by iceminx View Post

    Nina must have had a horrible SP to have ended up so low (for her) *sad*
    I hope she stays junior so she can WIN next season!
    Speaking of, what happened to Angela Wang who was in third? *sad again*
    2 falls and 4 downgrades :( Shame as she's very talented...

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