Championship Ladies FS | Page 44 | Golden Skate

Championship Ladies FS

immoiTW

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Thank you, jenetfan, you said it all. I can't believe how moved I am by your words. They just have the same power as Michelle Kwan's 05 Spartacus SP. For me she portrayed the music so well, it was like entire life in 2 minutes and 40 seconds.

Am I an old fashioned FS fan already? I miss those days when skaters put their lives in the program, but now they put nothing besides jumps and spins and sequences.


First, I want to meet this tech controller who knows more about skating than Scott. :biggrin:
Exactly what are the credentials of this tech caller? :think:

As a musician I have seen this over and over when reading columns written by music critics. I recall a particularly harsh review I once read about Jean-Pierre Rampal.

I looked into it and found out this critic had played in their high school band and then majored in journalism in college.

On the worst day of his life Rampal could play circles around this critic.

I suspect Mirai, not to mention Scott can also skate circles - and I am talking about big, huge, gigantic circles - around this ear bud tech specialist.

Here is a variation on an old quote:

"Those who can skate, and those who can't become judges."

When the day comes that I have to be told what I am seeing and what I am supposed to appreciate I hope I won't get trampled along with the hoard of fans running for the exit.

Whatever happened to living in the moment and letting the emotions created by the skater determining our level of enjoyment from their performance?

I am afraid such thoughts are alien to Speedy and his followers.

ETA: I think the ear buds are a good idea for those who want them.
I think it would be better to lose some of the secrecy and announce downgrades along with the score.
Unfortunately this might lead to very loud booing from the crowd and it is obvious ISU is afraid of this. But if it is really a sport then they should do this.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
1. Since they do post the downgrades/protocols on the internet, I don't think they're being that secret. In that regard, anyway

2. I can understand a tech controller, who's specifically trained to spot thinks like URs, edge calls, etc would know more about those things than Scott Hamilton. More specifically, what Scott Hamilton says as a commentator I don't think immediately reflects his knowledge of figure skating. He tends to get really caught up in the skate and overlooks the nitty gritty like that. Hell, remember how he called Yagudin's long program in SLC (Link if you'd like a reminder - "If he's third, he's third")
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Maybe NBC should be feeding the earbud audio to their broadcasts. It sounds like you were getting better information than the TV viewers were.
Praise to be! A good explanation for a nitpicking score in CoP is what the Sport needs. Not everyone runs to the protocols 2 days later for such information, and instant information will be appreciated by all including the casual fans who will catch on and appreciate the sport more.

I'm sure there is technolgy for bringing it to icenetwork and TV broadcasting, but they would have to bring the chatter of the commentators to a whisper similar to those commentators in golf sports.

Great idea those EARBUDS !!
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
1. Since they do post the downgrades/protocols on the internet, I don't think they're being that secret. In that regard, anyway

It is totally different unless the next CoP innovation is to pass out laptops to every fan entering the arena :laugh:

I can only conclude that ISU is afraid to announce or show downgrades along witht the score because urs and edge calls that can't be seen by the human eye in realtime would be bound to elicit booing and jeers from the crowd.

Why else wouldn't they announce and post it on a scoreboard? To get the score they have to also have the dgs so it is obviously availabe.

No, I think it is necessary to protect the techcallers. Imagine Yuna skating a picture perfect 3x3 and then having it announced with the score that it was downgraded.

I somehow doubt Yuna's fans would take it passively - and who can blame them.

It was mentioned there was no booing at Natls - but I wonder how the crowd would have reacted to seeing and hearing Mirai's dg's along with her score.

They are such cowards and I can barely stomach Speedy and his NEED for so much secrecy.

The reason for secrecy ceases to exist when you have nothing to hide.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Who's Speedy?

Here he is in a press conference admitting he does not know figure skating so well. :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFg9_OflQ_U

His name is Ottavio Cincuanta and he is the head of the ISU.
His nickname, "Speedy" has to do with his background as a speed skater.

Great idea those EARBUDS !!

Yes, and speaking of buds why not issue a sixpack of Buds to each fan too ;)

Sort of a way to help numb the crowd which goes along well with the idea of ISU propaganda being fed to them through these earbuds. :laugh:

Or lose the secrecy and just announce and post on a scoreboard any downgrades along with the score.

So what is the cost est of 15,000 earbuds? Could the money be spent a bit more wisely - maybe use it to help fund our skater's training costs?

It would seem to be a heck of alot easier to just announce and post any dg's with the skater's score.

And then, not only would the arena audience know what happened but so would millions of viewers watching on TV. :yes:

And of course the announcers would know and be able to explain it as well.
 
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mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
The tech controller for the event was Lisa Marie Allen, 4 or 5 time US ladies Silver medalist, 5th at 80 Olympics. She is VERY detailed and very even/fair when it comes to calling programs
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I think Blades of Passion made a good point on the thread in the Edge folder. In calling underrotated landings, should you consider the skater to be on the ice at the instant her toe pick touches? Or should it be when she is supporting her weight on the blade?

This may be the reason why there are so many jumps that look fine in real time, but are downgraded by slo-motion replays.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
The technical specialist who commented on the earbuds was DAVID KIRBY. Kirby is very experienced (he was a TS at the 2006 Olympics) and will be on the tech team at the Vancouver Olympics.

Kirby certainly knows a great deal more the IJS than Scott Hamilton, and tons more than janetfan does. All Scott and Sandra do is complain about how hard IJS is to understand.

Scott Hamilton acts like an idiot time after time, pre-judging the results of a competition based on his emotional reaction to one particular competitor. Then when the results are at odds with his biased reaction, he screams wuzrobbed. If TV audiences are misled, Scott is to blame, not the IJS.

BTW, I thought Mirai's interpretation of "Carmen" was WAY off. Mirai smiled joyfully all the way through her FS, and looked nothing like Prosper Merimee's sultry seductress. Perhaps that's why Rachael got a higher IN score than Mirai did.
 
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janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
The technical specialist who commented on the earbuds was DAVID KIRBY. Kirby is very experienced (he was a TS at the 2006 Olympics) and will be on the tech team at the Vancouver Olympics.

Kirby certainly knows a great deal more the IJS than Scott Hamilton, and tons more than janetfan does. All Scott and Sandra do is complain about how hard IJS is to understand.

Scott Hamilton acts like an idiot time after time, pre-judging the results of a competition based on his emotional reaction to one particular competitor. Then when the results are at odds with his biased reaction, he screams wuzrobbed. If TV audiences are misled, Scott is to blame, not the IJS.

BTW, I thought Mirai's interpretation of "Carmen" was WAY off. Mirai smiled joyfully all the way through her FS, and looked nothing like Prosper Merimee's sultry seductress. Perhaps that's why Rachael got a higher IN score than Mirai did.

Maybe someday you can enlighten Scott with your vast knowledge of skating and the CoP. :yes:
I am sorry if Scott does not announce events to your exacting requirements - but then why should he?
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Chuckm, please stop taking potshots at janetfan. He is not attacking you in any way but raising important questions and making excellent points. There is nothing to be gained by trying to silence critics of this decision. And I really hope you are not trying to argue that only experts have the right to opinions on this forum. (I would have to run for the hills.) :disagree:

Personally I don't care for conspiracy theories or the idea of 30-year-old grudges (janetfan, are you a mystery writer? :laugh:). But all this controversy does raise again the question of the power vested in one person, the tech caller. Joesitz used to post about this a lot. Anyone, however expert, can make mistakes. It seems this power should be less concentrated.

Also - ITA with janetfan that publicizing the tech calls in real time would lead to a lot of dissatisfaction... and confusion. Commentators who truly understand COP and are getting live feed from the tech caller would help, though.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
It is totally different unless the next CoP innovation is to pass out laptops to every fan entering the arena :laugh:

I can only conclude that ISU is afraid to announce or show downgrades along witht the score because urs and edge calls that can't be seen by the human eye in realtime would be bound to elicit booing and jeers from the crowd.

Why else wouldn't they announce and post it on a scoreboard? To get the score they have to also have the dgs so it is obviously availabe.

No, I think it is necessary to protect the techcallers. Imagine Yuna skating a picture perfect 3x3 and then having it announced with the score that it was downgraded.

I somehow doubt Yuna's fans would take it passively - and who can blame them.

It was mentioned there was no booing at Natls - but I wonder how the crowd would have reacted to seeing and hearing Mirai's dg's along with her score.

They are such cowards and I can barely stomach Speedy and his NEED for so much secrecy.

The reason for secrecy ceases to exist when you have nothing to hide.

What you are saying is that the audience should decide the outcome of a competition. Unfortunately, then figure skating would cease to be a sport and would instead become a popularity contest, like the USFS cheesefests which were based on online "voting".

Of course there was no booing at Nationals, because Rachael won fair and square and the audience knew it.

There is no secrecy when it comes to the tech team. Their names are disclosed, and their calls are printed right on the protocol. All calls must be agreed to by at least two of the three members of the tech team. For ISU events, the three tech team members must be from three different countries.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Maybe someday you can enlighten Scott with your vast knowledge of skating and the CoP.
I am sorry if Scott does not announce events to your exacting requirements - but then why should he?

I did not say I knew more than Scott icw IJS. I said DAVID KIRBY did.

Scott is paid big bucks to provide figure skating knowledge to the viewing audience. His comments should be objective and informative. Instead, he is selling his opinion which is often based on nothing more than his emotional reaction. He misleads the viewing audience instead of informing them.
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
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Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
all this controversy does raise again the question of the power vested in one person, the tech caller. Joesitz used to post about this a lot. Anyone, however expert, can make mistakes. It seems this power should be less concentrated.

First of all, there is NOT one caller. The tech team is composed of three people:

Technical Specialist
Assistant Technical Specialist
Technical Controller (who is a judge)

The technical specialist and assistant technical specialist must agree on a call. If they do not agree, then the technical controller has the deciding vote.

publicizing the tech calls in real time would lead to a lot of dissatisfaction... and confusion. Commentators who truly understand COP and are getting live feed from the tech caller would help, though

The NBC commentators do not truly understand CoP and in fact constantly criticize the IJS because they consider it too difficult. But surely they could be trained to understand the protocols, which are immediately available online along with the marks. The calls are shown right on the protocol.

So while waiting for the marks, it would be far better to remark on the overall performance of each skater while showing the replay, and wait for the protocol before declaring victory for one competitor over another. Then if the performance turned out not to be as technically pure as it may have appeared, the reason why could be explained to the viewing audience.
 
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Joined
Mar 14, 2006
OK, thanks for the correction. Then I guess I join janetfan, Hersh, and apparently Evan Lysacek in questioning the scoring system itself.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I did not say I knew more than Scott icw IJS. I said DAVID KIRBY did.

Scott is paid big bucks to provide figure skating knowledge to the viewing audience. His comments should be objective and informative. Instead, he is selling his opinion which is often based on nothing more than his emotional reaction. He misleads the viewing audience instead of informing them.

I don't think Scott is under any obligation to call an event to your standards.
I particularly like that he does get emotional because it means he sees what many other fans are seeing.

It is fine for you to disagree with me or Scott about this.
But for many of us skating is much more than a column of numbers. There is something more to it than that. Scott feels it - and so do I.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
OK, thanks for the correction. Then I guess I join janetfan, Hersh, and apparently Evan Lysacek in questioning the scoring system itself.

The judging system isn't perfect. But it IS the system in place, and until something better is put in place, IJS is the criteria for measuring skating performance. Hersh, janetfan and Lysacek are entitled to their opinions, but they are only opinions and not fact.

Hersh has never been a fan of IJS because he doesn't quite understand it and he is most critical of it when his favorites don't come out on top (as is janetfan).

Evan Lysacek, like Mirai, is trained by Frank Carroll, and of course he is going to rubberstamp Frank's opinion. Evan himself has benefitted from IJS much of the time by receiving inflated PCS scores despite his sometimes questionable technique. Evan was also in a pout because HE didn't win the Men's championship---which was also the right call.
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
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Aug 31, 2003
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United-States
I don't think Scott is under any obligation to call an event to your standards.
I particularly like that he does get emotional because it means he sees what many other fans are seeing.

It is fine for you to disagree with me or Scott about this.
But for many of us skating is much more than a column of numbers. There is something more to it than that. Scott feels it - and so do I.

Sure, you're entitled to feel what you feel. So am I and the many, many audience members who appreciated both Rachael's and Mirai's performances but agreed that the outcome was the correct one.

But Scott is paid to provide correct information, not publicize his personal preferences.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Sure, you're entitled to feel what you feel. So am I and the many, many audience members who appreciated both Rachael's and Mirai's performances but agreed that the outcome was the correct one.

But Scott is paid to provide correct information, not publicize his personal preferences.

Are you Scott's employer? Have you seen his contract with NBC?

I don't think either of us knows the terms of his contract and the exact definition of his job.

The fact that he has been doing it for quite a while leads me to believe NBC is OK with Scott's broadcasting of figure skating.
 
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