Championship Ladies FS | Page 36 | Golden Skate

Championship Ladies FS

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Trewyn

Medalist
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
silverlake22 said:
Ashley has to go to Jr. Worlds again? Poor girl. She must be upset. So pumped for Gao though, I bet she'll beat Kanako and Polina :love:
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Yeah, poor girl! I really don't understand why the USFSA didn't chose to send Ashley to Worlds; she earned it! They should encourage their skaters to do well in the GP by rewarding Ashley for her great season; the Nats results were close enough for that decision to be warranted.

For me personally; I'm glad that even though I'll be in Turin and Ashley probably won't be; I'll at least see her the week before in The Hague (of all places! so near!).
 
MK's Winter

MK's Winter

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
My thoughts on Nationals

Mirai - Way to go! Performance was wonderful! Everything looked great and I thought she had won, shocked that she didn't. Your future is now!:rock:

Rachel - Great jumps, very COP friendly program but I honestly believe she was overscored. The artistry is not there for me. Amazing consistency though.

Ashley - Awesome, Awesome skate! Damn short program!

Sasha - You gave a brave skate, I was happy to see that you went out and attempted everything in your program, no doubles or comming apart, you fought and kept going and that was the demon I think you needed to beat. And even with the jumps that program was beautiful.

Christina - you remind me of Michelle Kwan at the 95 worlds. Stocci here you come!:bow:
 
janetfan

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
ImaginaryPogue said:
Spins
Flatt - Base Value: 9.10, cumulative GOE: 0.86, TES = 9.96
Nagasu - Base Value: 9.20, cumulative GOE: 2.43, TES = 11.63

Spiral Sequence
Flatt - Base Value: 3.40, cumultative GOE: 0.71, TES = 4.11
Nagasu - Base Value: 3.40, cumulative GOE: 1.57, TES = 5.17

Steps
Flatt - Base Value: 3.30, cumulative GOE: 0.79, TES = 4.09
Nagasu - Base Value: 3.30, cumulative GOE: 0.57, TES = 3.87

Jumps
Flatt - Base Value: 46.61, cumulative GOE: 4.28 , TES = 50.89
Nagasu - Base Value: 33.75, cumulative GOE: 2.72, TES = 36.47

The TES comes from the fact that the downgrades are huge drops. Flatt also backloaded her program a bit more and got those bonuses. It's worth mentioning that in terms of cumulative GOE, they were quite close. Flatt got 6.64 points from GOE; Nagasu got 7.29 (Wagner, comparatively got only 2.19). Flatt's entire advantage came from the fact that she fully rotated her jumps and kept her base level up. Flatt beat Nagasu by 12.04 points in the Free Skate. Her base value was 12.86 points higher. Flatt did get a -GOE on her triple-triple.

So basically, Nagasu got points for what she did well, was docked for where she lacked. Flatt's weaknesses aren't as considerable (in COP terms). So I think the judges got this right (the system, on the other hand.... )
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Thanks for your post.
Aside from opinions of fans........it makes sense to look at this the way CoP is scoring it and the numbers don't lie.

My problem might lie with the fact that there are statements that the ur calls were not only questionable but harsh.

It is what it is and sorry for remarks I made that were over the top.

One way to look at this is that Mirai will be going to Vancouver and her fans should be happy to see her skate at the Olympics.

If she works hard in the next year or so it is possible for her to correct a few technical problems. Much of her skating, for me atleast is just so enjoyable.

Thanks again for posting the numbers.
 
L

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Trewyn said:
Yeah, poor girl! I really don't understand why the USFSA didn't chose to send Ashley to Worlds; she earned it! They should encourage their skaters to do well in the GP by rewarding Ashley for her great season; the Nats results were close enough for that decision to be warranted.

For me personally; I'm glad that even though I'll be in Turin and Ashley probably won't be; I'll at least see her the week before in The Hague (of all places! so near!).
Click to expand...

I feel bad for Ashley too and I thought she skated wonderfully last night. But why should Mirai or Rachael be left off the world team? Mirai has never gone and Rachael has never medaled. They deserve that chance and they need the experience.
 
L

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
janetfan said:
Thanks for your post.
Aside from opinions of fans........it makes sense to look at this the way CoP is scoring it and the numbers don't lie.

My problem might lie with the fact that there are statements that the ur calls were not only questionable but harsh.

It is what it is and sorry for remarks I made that were over the top.

One way to look at this is that Mirai will be going to Vancouver and her fans should be happy to see her skate at the Olympics.

If she works hard in the next year or so it is possible for her to correct a few technical problems. Much of her skating, for me atleast is just so enjoyable.

Thanks again for posting the numbers.
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Where do you guys get these numbers. I can never seem to find them. I'd be interested to see the PCS. I'm one of those people who doesn't understand why Rachael's are so high. Underrotations ARE a huge deduction and Mirai will suffer from it at international competitions so she might as well not get any favors from the U.S. judges. But Rachael shouldn't get any favors on Program Component scores. Not saying she did. But I'd like to understand better.
 
I

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Fair enough.

This technical panel was clearly strict - Hughes had four URs, Zhang had 3 + 2 edge calls, Czisny had four (three counted; the fourth was on the fourth combo, so it was non-scoring). Only three skaters didn't have edge calls (or URs).

I don't have a hard time believing that a skater with known UR issues would UR at Nationals (a high pressure event with the Olympics on the line). So even if I don't see it, I'm inclined to trust them on this one. That said, the tech panels are human beings. So they will make mistakes. Just like judges are human beings and will make mistakes (so complaining about one holding power is just like blaming the other).

As for the PCS, I'd be very interested in actually examining the rules and seeing where over/undermarking occured.
 
P

peg2010

Spectator
Joined
Jan 24, 2010
I've been away from skating since the last Olympics, so CoP is completely new to me. So I was very surprised at the standings last night. Thanks to the many posters here who ably explained what happened. Under the current system, it does seem that Rachel won, fair and square. I preferred Mirai's performance as being the more complete and rounded performance. My complaint would be that there should be a scoring system where presentation counts for more. I guess you just can't easily quantify when a skater has "It."

The funny thing is that I thought Mirai's jumps looked so good, her landings seemed nice and soft and easy. Guess you can't tell on TV, or without an expert eye.

One poster mentioned that CoP eliminates the judges withholding the highest scores based on expectations. That's a good trade-off IMO, as it used to drive me crazy when they would penalize the earlier skaters by "saving room."

My final comment is that the commentators should be less rah-rah and should really evaluate the skaters fairly, so there isn't this perception of the results being off. It's not fair to Rachel that her win should be the subject of so much second-guessing. Scott Hamilton said he got caught up in the performance. IMO, he's paid to be a commentator. We at home can see when something is beautiful or thrilling, and if that's all we are going to get from the commentators, I'd just as soon they were eliminated altogether.
 
S

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
MK's Winter said:
Christina - you remind me of Michelle Kwan at the 95 worlds. Stocci here you come!:bow:
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Did Michelle ever look like that? Christina reminds me a lot of Yuna but it might be more because she looks a lot like Yuna did at 15 and because of the way she does the 3-3 and 3-2-2. But Michelle Kwan's a great person to skate like too :agree:! Can't wait to see her grow up, she was 13th at regionals three years ago, last in the novice competition the year after, 3rd in juniors last year, and then this year 3rd at the JGPF and 5th at her first senior nationals! Can't wait to see her at jr. worlds! :love:

Also, another thing, I know this probably won't be decided for a while, but do people know what the protocol for Grand Prix events is? With Alissa and Caroline so far down in the standings, will they get 2 events next year or just one? I assume Christina will compete on the senior GP circuit but would they send her to JGP again so they can give Alissa, Caroline, and Alexe to two events instead? Agnes will have to go to the JGP circuit b/c she has not yet gone. I don't know how the decisions work but is there a limit on the number of ladies the US can send to two GP events?
 
MK's Winter

MK's Winter

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
silverlake22 said:
Did Michelle ever look like that? Christina reminds me a lot of Yuna but it might be more because she looks a lot like Yuna did at 15 and because of the way she does the 3-3 and 3-2-2. But Michelle Kwan's a great person to skate like too :agree:! Can't wait to see her grow up, she was 13th at regionals three years ago, last in the novice competition the year after, 3rd in juniors last year, and then this year 3rd at the JGPF and 5th at her first senior nationals! Can't wait to see her at jr. worlds! :love:

Also, another thing, I know this probably won't be decided for a while, but do people know what the protocol for Grand Prix events is? With Alissa and Caroline so far down in the standings, will they get 2 events next year or just one? I assume Christina will compete on the senior GP circuit but would they send her to JGP again so they can give Alissa, Caroline, and Alexe to two events instead? Agnes will have to go to the JGP circuit b/c she has not yet gone. I don't know how the decisions work but is there a limit on the number of ladies the US can send to two GP events?[/QUO

Performance wise she reminds me Of MK. She has wonderful artistry, once she develops it more(expeirence, ect) she will be unstoppable.:yes:
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L

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
ImaginaryPogue said:
The numbers

Nagasu won Skating Skills and Choreography, Flatt won Transitions, Performance and Interpretation
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Thanks!! Well, I have to say I am stumped. Nagasu definitely won when it comes to performance and interpretation in my book. But I am not a judge. I don't think Rachael's victory is unfair or that the judges did something sinister or any of it. But as a fan, I think carriage across the ice is extremely important and I wish COP would somehow reward more for it.

But all this discussion has me thinking about past competitions. Nancy Kerrigan definitely would have been the Olympic gold medalist in 1994 under COP. I liked Oksana's style and performance much better. But it kinds of gnaws at me sometimes that she won with a much lower technical content and obvious two-footed landings her LP. (They were even obvious to me) And Nancy was no slouch on style and performance. Also, Michelle Kwan would have won the 2002 Olympics. Sarah's 3-3s would have been downgraded and she would not have won the free skate. Well, I would have agreed with those victories. But I still can't bring myself to be happy about last night's outcome.

Anyhow, I'm thrilled to pieces Mirai is on the team. She, Sasha and Alissa were my top choices so I at least got one. I'm glad Rachael is going too. I prefer Ashley's skating but Rachael did better than Ashley in this competiton and she totally earned her spot on the team. I think the U.S. is sending their best competitors. It was a dog fight and Mirai and Rachael pulled ahead. Go team!!!
 
R

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
soogar said:
Having a history of downgrades doesn't mean that reflects the quality of the jumps she had performed at nationals. NBC didn't show slow motion but her landings looked good unless she prerotates her jumps the cheats weren't apparent on the landings.
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Yeah, this is one case where I'd really like to see the slo-mos. I thought her jumps looked easily fully rotated — not even questionable. I have absolutely no horse in this race, so to speak, but I was pretty shocked when the final results came up. I thought Nagasu had won handily. She was the only lady in the entire field (including Sasha Cohen, and I say that as someone who was always a big fan of hers) that had that "it" factor. (Well, Gao had "it" too, but she's so young and still doesn't look like she's finished growing, so there's a "wait and see" caveat.)

On the plus side, Nagasu looked only happy with her scores, no doubt thrilled to have one of the Olympic spots.

I was disappointed in Sasha's skate — not only were there the numerous technical flaws, but the program lacked the presentation she's been able to deliver in the past. I think part of it was the program itself was really one that needed to be skated perfectly. It was disappointing that Sasha looked good enough that I thought with a bit more prep time she could have done much better. She needed to get out and compete earlier.
 
L

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
silverlake22 said:
Did Michelle ever look like that? Christina reminds me a lot of Yuna but it might be more because she looks a lot like Yuna did at 15 and because of the way she does the 3-3 and 3-2-2. But Michelle Kwan's a great person to skate like too :agree:! Can't wait to see her grow up, she was 13th at regionals three years ago, last in the novice competition the year after, 3rd in juniors last year, and then this year 3rd at the JGPF and 5th at her first senior nationals! Can't wait to see her at jr. worlds! :love:

Also, another thing, I know this probably won't be decided for a while, but do people know what the protocol for Grand Prix events is? With Alissa and Caroline so far down in the standings, will they get 2 events next year or just one? I assume Christina will compete on the senior GP circuit but would they send her to JGP again so they can give Alissa, Caroline, and Alexe to two events instead? Agnes will have to go to the JGP circuit b/c she has not yet gone. I don't know how the decisions work but is there a limit on the number of ladies the US can send to two GP events?
Click to expand...

That's a good question. I don't know the rules but I'd definitely send Christina to senior GP. She is more than ready. She reminds me of a young Michelle too. It's hard to remember now but Michelle was once thought of as a young jumping bean. That was before her spectacular transformation into an artist at the 1996 worlds, and before Tara took the title of jumping bean.
I'll be watching Christina with interest and with a little bit of angst, like I always do with the young jumping beans. She could go the Michelle Kwan way or the Kimmie Meissner way. My bet is the Michelle way, and I can't wait.

I'll also be interested to see what Alissa does from now on. Brian Boitano said he advised her to keep going no matter what happens at this nationals, to keep competing and not to leave the sport with regrets. But 10th place finish is quite a big disappointment to get over. Still, look at Carolina Kostner. I had written her off and now she's back in the mix.
 
S

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Tinymavy15

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
I was really mad that Mirai did not win last night, but after chewing it over I understand that Racheal was the fair victor. Like many here, although she skated clean she does not make me feel anything. I was so happy for Mirai who seems unfased after hearing a score over 200 for Racheal. They both were awesome and Mirai was just a joy to watch. She really perfomed Carmen a lot more than she did in the GP.

Ashely had a splendid LP as I knew she would. She is really going to have to learn how to skate a clean SP if she ever wants to get out of third place. She looked really mad backstage, but there is nobody to blame but herself.

I just was shocked by Sasha. She didn't even seem to be trying. Every jumps was two footed. I didn't expect a clean skate but I expected a better effort than this. Her reaction was ever puzzling. She seemed upbeat and didn't seem to care after she skated and told Mr. Nicks "it was okay." she spins were medicore, the step sequence was slow ans simple, there was not even much good chreography. The program really looked thrown together in the past month. I love Moonlight Sonata but the music was just too quiet for her, she should have chosen a more fiery piece of music. I wonder what she will do now.

Christina Gao impressed me more than she did in the SP. Still very cutsey but I would have had her as a very close 4th or possibly 3rd. She skates very much like a young yu-na and we will be very luck if her artistry develops as Yu-na 's did. Like Yu-na at this age she has a weak spiral position and her spins are nothing special but she has speed and jumps.

Caroline skated better than I thought she would, but there was no chreography and the pearl was a glaring no show. She has a lot of work to do.

Alissa was a distaer. I expected a little more fight from her, to think she won with that program a year ago.

I was happy for Bebe. Finally a good skate for her. She looked so happy and please. It was sweet of her to come over and hug Mirai at the end. They are so cute!
 
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I

inside edge

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
janetfan said:
It would seem to me that NBC is spending way to much time in the K&C after a skate. If this time was spent showing some replay (or better yet, some slow-mo replay) with analysis it might have worked wonders for helping the VAST majority of those watching to better understand how the scores were determined.

Then fans might say " I love the way Mirai skates and hope she will work on some of her ur problems."

They could also conclude that Rachael may not be a flashy or elegant skater but is the best jumper, etc.

I don't mean to be so harsh about Rachael but I can honestly say her skating is neither beautiful to watch and seems to be missing something that has always been at the essence of figure skating.
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:yes: :yes:
 
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