Championship Ladies FS | Page 43 | Golden Skate

Championship Ladies FS

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
My scores (keeping Michelle and Irina in mind)

Rachael - 5.8 and 5.6

Mirai - 5.7 and 5.8

Rachael would probably get 5.8s and some 5.9s for her tech, because of the triple-triple. Too bad NBC's camera work was so bad that we couldn't really see how she landed it.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
That does kind of keep things in perspective. :laugh:

Now I want to change my scores to yours. :cool:

Mirai can improve her IN closer to Michelle before I would give her a 5.9 for presentation. But her skating really sparkled imo - and her spins are better now than Sasha. Her spirals are also close to being in a class of their own.

Rachel - hmmmm is she really the equal of Irina and Michelle technically? Irina scored many 5.9's for her technical mark but her skating was faster and her jumps so much bigger.

We tend to think of Michelle for her artistry but so much of it was based on a very strong technique.

I really can't see Rachel under 6.0 being close to Michelle's equal.
 

Eddie Lee

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
So Janetfan disagrees with the judges. Why does that make you so angry? It's a forum, that's allowed. It's not like her so-called "prejudices" are based on any dislike for the person that Rachael is. From what I gather, she is arguing that even IF Mirai underrotated 3 jumps, the rest of her skating was so superior to Rachael's that she should have won. It's a valid argument. I agree. Rachael may land difficult jumps. But she does nothing else very well that I can see. The judges disagreed and I can definitely see their argument. But why can't we disagree?

Mirai's minor underotations shouldn't bother judges any more than Rachael's plodding spin speed and generally lethargic movement over the ice.
 

Wicked

Final Flight
Joined
May 26, 2009
Mirai seemed so happy with her scores and seemed to think they were appropriate. She did not come across as someone who thought she wuzrobbbed. I think she knows what she needs to work on. I'd love to see her skate lights out in Vancouver. I'm just loving her comments about blowing the competition away. BAM, BAM, BAM, indeed!
 

ManyCairns

Medalist
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Country
United-States
Several posts have mentioned Mirai's respect for Rachael as a competitor and maybe even friend. I do remember when Mirai won 2 years ago, Rachael mentioned in an interview (she was standing there bouncing up and down a little and grinning ear to ear [still with braces then, it was cute]) after the LP I think that she had watched Mirai skate and was so happy for her. Now, I'm not naive enough to think that all among competing athletes is nicey-nice and sweet, but I do think it appears that there is clearly respect between the two but also some genuine camaraderie. Anyone else see that, or am I imagining?

I like the report of Mirai's "Bam, bam, bam!" comment, too. Gotta go out there with confidence! :agree:
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Mirai seemed so happy with her scores and seemed to think they were appropriate. She did not come across as someone who thought she wuzrobbbed. I think she knows what she needs to work on. I'd love to see her skate lights out in Vancouver. I'm just loving her comments about blowing the competition away. BAM, BAM, BAM, indeed!
Exactly! She's a lady and not dwelling on the scores of 1 competition. BTW, did she not win the SP? To all those posters who thought Mirai wuzzrobd, I suggest you reread and understand the 5part directive on the Program Component Scores. There is no Performance Score as there was in the .6.0 system. The PC scores cover a multitude of requirements. Compare and contrast with Rachael.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Several posts have mentioned Mirai's respect for Rachael as a competitor and maybe even friend. I do remember when Mirai won 2 years ago, Rachael mentioned in an interview (she was standing there bouncing up and down a little and grinning ear to ear [still with braces then, it was cute]) after the LP I think that she had watched Mirai skate and was so happy for her. Now, I'm not naive enough to think that all among competing athletes is nicey-nice and sweet, but I do think it appears that there is clearly respect between the two but also some genuine camaraderie. Anyone else see that, or am I imagining?

I like the report of Mirai's "Bam, bam, bam!" comment, too. Gotta go out there with confidence! :agree:

I was one of the posters that mentioned it. And I re-watched the press conference today and I got the sense that they were both excited for each other. That's why I think it's a shame that everyone is making this big deal when it's clear the skaters don't share that animosity that everyone is trying to create.

I think they are just both excited to go to the Olympics for the first time. I think Mirai will work on the URs and I believe Rachael will on her artistry.

And one more point: this isn't like the last U.S. championship that these two will compete in. So just because Mirai didn't win this one doesn't mean that she's fated not to win another championship. As others said, she's on the cusp and with a 3X3 on the horizon she'll be hard to beat.
 
Last edited:

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Exactly! She's a lady and not dwelling on the scores of 1 competition. BTW, did she not win the SP? To all those posters who thought Mirai wuzzrobd, I suggest you reread and understand the 5part directive on the Program Component Scores. There is no Performance Score as there was in the .6.0 system. The PC scores cover a multitude of requirements. Compare and contrast with Rachael.

Mirai won that by 1 point. No real contrast and basically a tie.

That issue happens to be the lead editorial article at Blazing Blades today.

Like many here they noticed a difference in the skill level between Mirai and Rachael in certain pcs which was in no way reflected in the marks.

Rachael won the jumps and was scored as Mirai's equal in everything else...:disagree:
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
To me, Rachael's lutz edge seemed to flip over at the last second.

Rachael doesn't flutz at all anymore. She has worked hard to get that jump right.

You can clearly see how it's more difficult to stay on that outside edge, though - her body tends to lean sideways in the air now on her Lutz and the landings are tighter.
 

Skatergirl_19

Spectator
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
I am happy that Mirai and Rachael made the olympic team and can't wait to cheer them on in Vancover. That being said I have some thought on cop.

I wish that some of the less flexible skaters would do simpler spins that they could do well vs trying the more difficult flexible spins. I think they should crack down on goe. It does not make sense for the system to reward skaters for somthing they can't do.

I also wish that they could have a sliding scale for urs like they have now with edge calls. If the caller can't see it in real time than just give them a warning mark with negitive goe. If the caller can see it in real time than it should be downgraded.


These are just my thoughts on the system overall I do like cop though. I can't wait until Vancover.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Mirai can improve her IN closer to Michelle before I would give her a 5.9 for presentation. But her skating really sparkled imo - and her spins are better now than Sasha. Her spirals are also close to being in a class of their own.

Rachel - hmmmm is she really the equal of Irina and Michelle technically? Irina scored many 5.9's for her technical mark but her skating was faster and her jumps so much bigger.
.

But there was a comparative element to 6.0. If Mirai was a 5.7 in tech and Ashley a 5.8, then some judges would probably put Rachael at 5.9 because she did 7 triples, including a 3-3. The marks under 6.0 don't have meaning from competition to competition, except maybe the 6.0 mark, which is supposed to mean perfection.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Rachael landed more triples than Mirai and Sasha in the short program but was in third.

Rachael shorted the rotations on her layback spin and got only L1. If she hadn't made that mistake, an L3 on that spin would have given her an additional 0.9 and she would have been in first place in the SP by 0.19. You can be sure you won't see that mistake in Vancouver.

I think the dismissal of CoP by some posters and the yearning to return to 6.0 is the ostrich burying its head in the sand to avoid reality. CoP isn't going anywhere, and if anything, URs will be more closely monitored than ever.

It makes no sense to say beautiful flexible skating with multiple technical errors should win over correct technique with less flexibility. Basically, it's Rachael's lack of flexibility which seems to annoy posters. Rachael has a chronic back problem and she is unable to do some of the more complex spin positions. As a result, she gets lower GOE on spins and spiral than skaters who are more flexible. And that probably is not going to change much in the future.

But by the same token, skaters who cannot fully rotate triples should not be given credit for jumps that are basically overrotated doubles. Rachael doesn't get high GOE for her spins, and Mirai should not get the base value of triple jumps for jumps that are not triples.
 
Last edited:

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Rachael shorted the rotations on her layback spin and got only L1. If she hadn't made that mistake, an L3 on that spin would have given her an additional 0.9 and she would have been in first place in the SP by 0.19. You can be sure you won't see that mistake in Vancouver.

I think the dismissal of CoP by some posters and the yearning to return to 6.0 is the ostrich burying its head in the sand to avoid reality. CoP isn't going anywhere, and if anything, URs will be more closely monitored than ever.

It makes no sense to say beautiful flexible skating with multiple technical errors should win over correct technique with less flexibility. Basically, it's Rachael's lack of flexibility which seems to annoy posters. Rachael has a chronic back problem and she is unable to do some of the more complex spin positions. As a result, she gets lower GOE on spins and spiral than skaters who are more flexible. And that probably is not going to change much in the future.

But by the same token, skaters who cannot fully rotate triples should not be given credit for jumps that are basically overrotated doubles. Rachael doesn't get high GOE for her spins, and Mirai should not get the base value of triple jumps for jumps that are not triples.

As a Cop advocate you can say that, but what do you tell the general public- the non-skating audience who wishes to tune in during the Olys...they see something like what happened at Nationals with both Flatt and Nagasu in a tie after the SP, skating stellar longs, but the latter bringing the house down. It appears Nagasu should win. But oh no, a mistake barely visible many times even to a trained eye (let alone an untrained one!!!) puts the "more gratifying" performance behind the "good, technically correct but not inspiring" performance. Another reason for viewers to tune out of skating. Just saying, playing DA here. Sure, rules are rules but are you truly FOR them? Or should it change?
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
chuckm said:
Rachael has a chronic back problem and she is unable to do some of the more complex spin positions.
Really, a chronic back problem? I never knew that. But it would make sense why her layback seemed to suffer this year. I don't thinks he ever did a beillmann, but she had a gorgeous traditional layback position, and it seemed lacking at Nationals. Dorothy said it best:
'Get the image of being a tiny little bird out of your head,' " Hamill said in an interview after Flatt's victory. " 'You are an amazing athlete, and you have to build on your strengths. You can't wish and hope and pray for something that you don't have.'
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
I think it is incumbent on the TV commentators to review the protocols after the marks are posted, and inform the public as to what caused a seemingly puzzling result. BTW, I think Scott Hamilton is a poor commentator because he reacts emotionally to what he sees instead of being an objective reporter. I dread his Olympic coverage (and Bezic's, too).

I was in the audience and there wasn't an outcry against the result because so many of the audience members were wearing the earbuds and heard the technical specialist commentator remark that 3 of Mirai's jumps had been rated UR by the technical panel. While the audience loved her performance, they did understand that Mirai didn't have sufficient technical content to win.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I think it is incumbent on the TV commentators to review the protocols after the marks are posted, and inform the public as to what caused a seemingly puzzling result. BTW, I think Scott Hamilton is a poor commentator because he reacts emotionally to what he sees instead of being an objective reporter. I dread his Olympic coverage (and Bezic's, too).
and with that high pitched voice screaming constantly "she held on to it" as if no one noticed. All I could think of was to say, oh shut up.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I think it is incumbent on the TV commentators to review the protocols after the marks are posted, and inform the public as to what caused a seemingly puzzling result. BTW, I think Scott Hamilton is a poor commentator because he reacts emotionally to what he sees instead of being an objective reporter. I dread his Olympic coverage (and Bezic's, too).

I was in the audience and there wasn't an outcry against the result because so many of the audience members were wearing the earbuds and heard the technical specialist commentator remark that 3 of Mirai's jumps had been rated UR by the technical panel. While the audience loved her performance, they did understand that Mirai didn't have sufficient technical content to win.

Yes, I think you make good points.
As you previously pointed out it was nice that no one booed Rachael when they saw that she had won. Rachael or any other skater does not deserve that type of treatment no matter how much another skater was preferred..

But rules aside for a minute - skating can't survive as we know it without the type of performance Mirai delivered.

The fact that Scott got emotionally involved along with the majority of the crowd and the majority of the TV viewers would be shortsighted and even foolish to overlook.

Or, as some have mentioned in the past, we can lose the music and the costumes and just line up the skaters for a jumping contest - something like the vault in gymnastics.

Then another event for spinning. Then an event for steps.......
After all the separate events have been completed an all around winner can be declared with individual medals for the winners of each event.

This would be the ultimate realization of the CoP. A pure athletic competition with little to do with the most unique aspect of skating - the performance art.

Maybe they should try it. I am sure it is what Speedy would be most comfortable with. And while we are at it throw in a couple of sprint races so we can see who are the fastest figure skaters.

I think the most special and unique aspect of figure skating - and what sets it apart from other sports - is the type of performance Mirai delivered at Natls.

It is for moments like that that I have enjoyed skating. If they take that away, they lose me and the vast majority of fans.
 
Last edited:

sk8rdad

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 2, 2009
I think it is incumbent on the TV commentators to review the protocols after the marks are posted, and inform the public as to what caused a seemingly puzzling result. BTW, I think Scott Hamilton is a poor commentator because he reacts emotionally to what he sees instead of being an objective reporter. I dread his Olympic coverage (and Bezic's, too).

I was in the audience and there wasn't an outcry against the result because so many of the audience members were wearing the earbuds and heard the technical specialist commentator remark that 3 of Mirai's jumps had been rated UR by the technical panel. While the audience loved her performance, they did understand that Mirai didn't have sufficient technical content to win.

Maybe NBC should be feeding the earbud audio to their broadcasts. It sounds like you were getting better information than the TV viewers were.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Maybe NBC should be feeding the earbud audio to their broadcasts. It sounds like you were getting better information than the TV viewers were.

First, I want to meet this tech controller who knows more about skating than Scott. :biggrin:
Exactly what are the credentials of this tech caller? :think:

As a musician I have seen this over and over when reading columns written by music critics. I recall a particularly harsh review I once read about Jean-Pierre Rampal.

I looked into it and found out this critic had played in their high school band and then majored in journalism in college.

On the worst day of his life Rampal could play circles around this critic.

I suspect Mirai, not to mention Scott can also skate circles - and I am talking about big, huge, gigantic circles - around this ear bud tech specialist.

Here is a variation on an old quote:

"Those who can skate, and those who can't become judges."

When the day comes that I have to be told what I am seeing and what I am supposed to appreciate I hope I won't get trampled along with the hoard of fans running for the exit.

Whatever happened to living in the moment and letting the emotions created by the skater determining our level of enjoyment from their performance?

I am afraid such thoughts are alien to Speedy and his followers.

ETA: I think the ear buds are a good idea for those who want them.
I think it would be better to lose some of the secrecy and announce downgrades along with the score.
Unfortunately this might lead to very loud booing from the crowd and it is obvious ISU is afraid of this. But if it is really a sport then they should do this.
 
Last edited:
Top