01-24-2010, 08:38 AM
congratulations Mirai, I am so proud about you, and Sasha too, for try it.
01-24-2010, 09:03 AM
Thankyou for a very astute observation about this mathman.
Originally Posted by Mathman
I don't think it matters so much if all agree with you - but think it is important to consider and understand the meaning of your words.
You did use the word "arena" but I suspect you also meant to include "TV audience" as part of your observation.
I did read the long post from Chuck, which I found to have some excellent analysis. Unfortunately Chuck's post can be read here at GS - but the vast majority (close to 99% of TV viewers) have no way of knowing or understanding the basis for Chuck's analysis.
It would seem to me that NBC is spending way to much time in the K&C after a skate. If this time was spent showing some replay (or better yet, some slow-mo replay) with analysis it might have worked wonders for helping the VAST majority of those watching to better understand how the scores were determined.
Then fans might say " I love the way Mirai skates and hope she will work on some of her ur problems."
They could also conclude that Rachael may not be a flashy or elegant skater but is the best jumper, etc.
Watching on TV last night it was not apparent to me that Mirai missed so many jumps.
It was apparent that Mirai skates faster, jumps higher, has more beautiful spins and spirals and an overall presentation that is wonderful to watch.
I am no expert or judge, just a fan who loves skating. If I was surprised that Mirai was placed second - can it be any more of a surprise that millions of more casual fans watching on TV felt the same way?
It appeared to me and many others last night Mirai had a superior presentation but this did not seem to be the decisive part of the equation.
By only beating Mirai with cleaner jumps we are left with a slow and some might say rather dull champion. A CoP champion.
I don't mean to be so harsh about Rachael but I can honestly say her skating is neither beautiful to watch and seems to be missing something that has always been at the essence of figure skating.
Button still talks about this special quality - and that certain skaters have it - and it is easy to see he still believes strongly in it.
I do too.
Last edited by janetfan; 01-24-2010 at 09:05 AM.
01-24-2010, 09:06 AM
Here is the problem
Originally Posted by i love to skate
The problem is the tech caller/judges are picking and choosing who and what to ding. The quality of mirai's program was FAR superior to Flatts, and there were some areas where Flatt should have been dinged and was not.
Having said that, I was impressed with Flatt when she was interviewed-she is a smart poised young lady who has led an impressive life. Today in the paper she said how she is looking foward to "all the free stuff you get" for the Olympics. I liked to have died laughing. Because frankly, that is cool! Flatt is just one of those kids you get a kick out of, and I wish her the best.
As far as the prior question about what Caroline should do? She should shop for a pair partner.
01-24-2010, 09:26 AM
Thanks. Looks like they just went down the list, which is understandable I guess.
Originally Posted by demarinis5
01-24-2010, 09:29 AM
There is much to admire about Rachael both as a person and as a skater.
Originally Posted by katymay
She does handle herself very well at press conferences and is a very good and determined competitor.
But I do believe it was Mirai who made the comments you are referring too.
01-24-2010, 09:31 AM
The Technical Specialists dinged Mirai for her three underrotated jumps and a persistent flutz. Mirai also has been dinged at her GP events for the same problems by the ISU callers.
Originally Posted by katymay
Rachael did not UR any of her jumps and that is why she didn't get any UR calls. She has worked hard to fix her flutz as well. That's why she doesn't get UR and edge calls from the ISU judges.
The USFS tech team haven't behaved any differently from the ISU tech teams.
Mirai has technical problems. Rachael doesn't, hence the difference in scores.
01-24-2010, 09:39 AM
Dedicated follower of the black line
Christina Gao has an awkward quality to her (reminds me of Carolina Kostner) that I hope she will grow out of. If she does, I think she will be absolutely spectacular.
01-24-2010, 10:16 AM
Dreaming and dancing
I managed to watch only Sasha's LP. It was so beautiful and mature.
I liked her skating skills. In her prime time, I used to have an impression that her skating skills were not very good. She needed to stroke a lot more often than some other skaters to go the same distance. Somehow I feel that her skating skills were very good at this comp, esp. in SP. I was really impressed by the speed. Is there anyone else who felt that her skating skills have gotten actually better? Or is this just my impression?
That said, the score here seems pretty inflated for those jumps. I find it surprising that she was not dinged for URs on any of those jumps. Many of them looked very tight and short of rotataion. Her lutz received only an attention mark instead of "e". Her spirals got 1.86 GOE. This is relatively low for Sasha, but it is a big GOE for similarly flexible skaters with great speed. What was excuted here, however, was not really good. In addition to not being penalized for flutz, two-foot, URs, and shaky landing on the lutz combo in SP, she was held up a lot here.
But I think that most of her non-jump elements were good and she deserves good PCS despite all the mistakes on jumps.
ETA: I am dying to see Mirai's LP, but I can find only the crappy Yuna/Mao Internet Battle videos that are compelely useless.
Last edited by Bennett; 01-24-2010 at 10:24 AM.
01-24-2010, 10:23 AM
I love you, Jeremy!
01-24-2010, 10:29 AM
Was it Mirai who said that? Figures, as she is always saying some funny things as well. (And Caroline has such a cute, bubbly personality). To me, Rachael's lutz edge seemed to flip over at the last second, I thought I saw a rotation call on one of the spins etc. Picky picky stuff, but I do think the judges need to be consistent-if you are going to pick apart one, pick apart all. Two of the UR calls on Marai seemed to be w/in the legally allowed 1/4.
Even if Rachael had finished 3'd though, I would have put her on the team, as she has been consistent all year long, and with a 5th place finish at Worlds....I hope both girls have a wonderful time at the Olympics.
01-24-2010, 10:31 AM
Actually Gao reminds me of Kwan when Kwan was 13 years old.
01-24-2010, 10:59 AM
I'm just shocked at Sasha performing so badly. Level 1 footwork? Taking out the layback and triple toe? I'm so... I don't know, not angry like I would have been a few years ago, just confused. She was so stiff and not her usual self. USFSA told her to "get lost" with the PCS in the short and again in the long. In the short I felt she didn't even have her old spark.
Congrats Rachael and Mirai.
01-24-2010, 11:10 AM
Chuckm is right. Flatt used to have the same jumping problems but she spent a year fixing her flutzes and UR's. She probably spent more time cultivating her jumping skills over other skating elements which is probably why the other areas suffered. So it's really not fair to reward Mirai over Flatt if she's having the same problems Flatt did, but neglected to fix them. Letting Mirai know now of her problems rather than later is better for her in the long run, especially if she wants success on the international level. She's only 16, so I don't it's going be difficult for her. She's clearly superior than any other US skaters in the non-jump elements, so if she fixes those problems, no doubt she'll be dominant.
01-24-2010, 11:13 AM
Ok, I've gotten sleep and I'm alot less cranky now...that said...
I think what bothers me most aren't the tech callers but the fact that difficult and beautiful choreography seems to be chopped liver under this system, or at least it was last night. Choreography into a jumping pass can make it much harder than no choreography into a harder jumping pass! Gordeeva used to say the programs Zoueva drafted at first had the athletic difficulty of pairs programs and the artistry of ice dance-- and that it was "impossible" to, say, clap your hands twice, turn, do a crossover in another direction, and then do a jump. They had to simplify it so they could concentrate on landing their jumps and other high risk elements.
Staying in character and having so many perfectly timed choreographic movements and facial expressions should garner more points! Even before Mirai's first jump she does a million things (and not superfluous at all) that could have distracted her first jump...I'm reminded of Oda's Chaplin program where half the difficulty is putting your entire soul into an intricately demanding artistic and athletic program. You're never just concentrating and stroking into a nother jump.
Last edited by cornell08; 01-24-2010 at 11:17 AM.
01-24-2010, 11:19 AM
Regardless of the scores, there was quite a bit of excellent skating in ALL the US Divisions.
As for the Ladies, it showed that it's not just about two skaters, but several skaters determined to rise to the occasion.
Rachael certainly accomplished that. She showed the 3x3 which is most important In Ladies world wide. Spirals maybe wow but they are not that point getting. Rachael should now work on flow-out after landing her jumps.
Mirai showed her 3x3,too, albeit, the siimplest one. What impressed me most was her newly found mature approach to her performance. She is no longer with the teenybopper style of skating.
Ashley if nothing else showed that she is definitely a member of the elite US Ladies. She had the most complicated routine, but it did not deter her from skating a clean program. A 3x3 in both the SP and LP will serve her well in the future.
Sasha - Has any skater, male or female, displayed so many stunning Short Programs in their years of skating? I doublt it, but her nemesis is the LP and what to do about it, I just don't know.
Caroline has to start showing some mature skating on the ice. The careful approach to the elements has to be speeded up, and the mule kick has to go. She's much too talented to keep unresolved problems.
Amanda, and welcome to the elite with better than average Singles and Pairs.