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Thread: Championship Ladies FS

  1. #751
    Custom Title ks777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    They are up at nbcolympics.com

    Regardless of the UR's or not, Mirai should have destroyed Rachael in the PCS and that didn't happen. I'm fine with her being second if the URs were there, but the PCS is frankly a joke.

    Ok I rewatched Mirai's LP again. I rewatched her Lutz and toes. Her 2axel/3toe look fully rotated to me and her solo 3lutz look also rotated to me. Her last jump, 3toe, look maybe underrotated but it was very close. I watched them over and over..

    I also watched Rachel's 3/3 and I have to say her 3toe looked underrotated.

  2. #752
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    I totally agree. The only jump I can spot the UR on is the last 3T. The 3Lz and the first 3T looked good.

    IMHO, Rachael gets the benefit of doubt from the callers, because more often than not she does rotate her jumps (aside form the back end of her 3+3), but Mirai doesn't, which wasn't fair at all in this case. I can't tell if it was UR or not because you can't see her blade in the camera angle. She did have a bad landing and barely got deducted for it - it's not like the jump was that great to begin with.

  3. #753
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    Sounds to me like some of you should have been callers last night. You guys have watched these jumps back in super slow motion replay, right? The same kind of replay available to the real callers?

  4. #754
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Excuse me, but the audience at Spokane was NOT perturbed. A good portion of the audience was wearing the ear buds which delivered the technical commentary on each skater. So the audience KNEW Mirai had not rotated all of her jumps.

    The scoring system wasn't flawed, Mirai's jump technique was flawed.

    I was in the audience and the applause after the final scores and placements was announced was deafening. NO ONE BOOED RACHAEL'S WIN.
    They didn't tell us on NBC though until AFTER Rachel won. I seriously thought Nagasu won and admit to being confused for a little bit from the results. I know I wasn't the only one...even some skaters thought the same thing.

    Not saying Rachel didn't win fair and square, but this is a clear drawback of the Cop system. Why penalize so heavily errors barely visible to most people?

  5. #755
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    a very very short review of what happened?i cant find the results in the 50 pages, who will be sent to Olys?
    Did Sasha skate?

  6. #756
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    a very very short review of what happened?i cant find the results in the 50 pages, who will be sent to Olys?
    Did Sasha skate?
    1. Flatt
    2. Nagasu
    --
    3. Wagner
    4. Cohen
    5. Gao

    Flatt and Nagasu are going to Olympics/Worlds. Nagasu URed 3 jumps in the long, which hurt her and has led to much discussion about COP's imperfections.

  7. #757
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I still can't see the underrotation of Mirai's 3Lz. I can give you the last 3T, the 2A+3T maybe, but the 3Lz? can't see it.
    I slow mo my recording and for both the lutz and the last toe, she landed backward.
    The flip was questionable, too.

    A stricter caller would probably ding her for the flip as well.

    Mirai is lucky in this event.

    Mao flutz carries a -2 or -3 GOE.

    Hers was less than -1.

  8. #758
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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Ok I rewatched Mirai's LP again. I rewatched her Lutz and toes. Her 2axel/3toe look fully rotated to me and her solo 3lutz look also rotated to me. Her last jump, 3toe, look maybe underrotated but it was very close. I watched them over and over..

    I also watched Rachel's 3/3 and I have to say her 3toe looked underrotated.
    are you imagining things because I would love to see a video where they show rachael's blade on ice for the 3toe?

    From the NBC source I watch, it looks like she slightly overrotated, causing unstable landing

  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    I slow mo my recording and for both the lutz and the last toe, she landed backward.
    The flip was questionable, too.

    A stricter caller would probably ding her for the flip as well.

    Mirai is lucky in this event.

    Mao flutz carries a -2 or -3 GOE.

    Hers was less than -1.
    Mao's flutz is worse, but I do think where Mirai has a history of URs, the judges were looking at her jumps especially close. Her jumps do look MUCH better as far as I can tell though, and the fact that she got 5 triples ratified at SC also makes me more confident. She just needs to tweak her jump line up a bit and she should be fine. Judges are especially hard on 3-3 jumps (or for Mirai her 2a-3t jump) because those are seen as advanced combinations and they don't want to credit anyone for such a hard, point getting combination unless it is clearly clean. The 3t was at the end of the program so that's probably something that can be fixed with more stamina. She should just switch the second lutz to a flip and switch the 2a-3t to a 3t-2a sequence and then she should be all set. Still amazing performance by her last night though , even with the URs that I could not detect . She was so cute in the press conference too, she is very much a socal asian teen but I like that about her.

  10. #760
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    I totally, agree, R.D. I hate this nitpicking aspect of CoP. I thought it when Yuna Kim was given a UR call at GPF, and think it now with Mirai's UR calls. This does nothing but cause great skaters to doubt themselves and their entire jump technique, and makes them really tentative and nervous when they go out on the ice. And all these UR calls for Mirai are definitely going to influence the international judges negatively against her at the Olympics.

    I think CoP nitpicking is the major reason for Mao's recent troubles. They took one of the best jumpers in the world, one of the only ladies who can do a triple axel, and made her so depressed and insecure that she keeps falling apart. If you're always worried about clean triples getting downgraded, how can you focus on skating a good program?

    I think skaters should be rewarded for clean, artistic, and exciting programs. I don't even care about jump entrance edges that much. For example, a 2004 Malaguena program from Sasha Cohen is just so much better impact wise than a short program from Elena Sokolova, even if Sasha does flutz and Elena doesn't. And somehow, CoP has to find a way to take this into account.
    Last edited by karenll; 01-24-2010 at 04:28 PM.

  11. #761
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    Quote Originally Posted by karenll View Post
    I totally, agree, R.D. I hate this nitpicking aspect of CoP. I thought it when Yuna Kim was given a UR call at GPF, and think it now with Mirai's UR calls. This does nothing but cause great skaters to doubt themselves and their entire jump technique, and makes them really tentative and nervous when they go out on the ice. And all these UR calls for Mirai are definitely going to influence the international judges negatively against her at the Olympics.

    I think CoP nitpicking is the major reason for Mao's recent troubles. They took one of the best jumpers in the world, one of the only ladies who can do a triple axel, and made her so depressed and insecure that she keeps falling apart. If you're always worried about clean triples getting downgraded, how can you focus on skating a good program?

    I think skaters should be rewarded for clean, artistic, and exciting programs. I don't even care about jump entrance edges that much. For example, a 2004 Malaguena program from Sasha Cohen is just so much better impact wise than a short program from Elena Sokolova, even if Sasha does flutz and Elena doesn't. And somehow, CoP has to find a way to take this into account.
    I think falls and sloppy landings should be more heavily penalized than downgrades.

  12. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    1. Flatt
    2. Nagasu
    --
    3. Wagner
    4. Cohen
    5. Gao

    Flatt and Nagasu are going to Olympics/Worlds. Nagasu URed 3 jumps in the long, which hurt her and has led to much discussion about COP's imperfections.
    Yes, and as for the other contenders (Czisny, Zhang, et al.)- well, they crashed and burned, unfortunately.

  13. #763
    Custom Title ks777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    I slow mo my recording and for both the lutz and the last toe, she landed backward.
    The flip was questionable, too.
    .
    huh? I thought you are supposed to land them backwards?

  14. #764
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I think falls and sloppy landings should be more heavily penalized than downgrades.
    I think the USFSA wanted Rachael to win and used Mirai's history of URs to do that. I can't be sure, but as far as I could tell Mirai should have only had one downgrade, on the last 3t, and that was even borderline. the 3lz was definitely fine. I will say that all of Rachael's jumps (save the 3t on the 3f-3t which was borderline) were definitely clean and maybe even over-rotated. Her lutz is also definitely not flutz so I'm not really mad she won, just more mad that Mirai got all those downgrades.

    But hey, the judging is a lot more fair then last year when Alissa won with a huge margin and actually did 3 triples (fell on one and doubled the other two). Mirai's URs are better than before but the tech panel screwed over everyone except Rachael and Ashley and it's not the first time we've seen nearly perfect jumps downgraded. Yuna at the GPF? Why do you think Miki never does 3lz-3lo anymore even though she does it beautifully in practice all the time? Fear of downgrades.

  15. #765
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I think falls and sloppy landings should be more heavily penalized than downgrades.
    I second that motion! Falls and sloppy landings break the flow of a program, where downgrades are often debatable and/or undetectable to the audience.

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