01-25-2010, 10:49 AM
Oh well, it seems as if the difference between 1st and 2nd is simple Cop nitpicking. If Wagner had not fallen in the SP, she'd have been going, but then again, who knows if she would have skated the FS with the same level of attack (The X-Factor).
I hope Nagasu can fix her UR problems by Vancouver. But assuming there's not enough time to do so, where do you think she finishes in the pack? A lot of people thought she should have medaled at SC- that field contained Rochette and Lepisto. One can say Ando, Asada, and Kim have the advantage which puts Nagasu somewhere in the lower top 10? Anyway I don't see her doing any worse than Czisny did at Worlds (I mean this with all due respect)
01-25-2010, 10:55 AM
I have to say just one thing-lucky you(US) because your Championships are most interesting,incredibile and with great skating levels!
01-25-2010, 11:48 AM
Thanks for pointing out some of those facts.
Originally Posted by MKFSfan
I guess it is because I can't take CoP seriously.
I don't see why there is almost no difference between beautiful spins and laybacks and very bad looking ones. Same for spirals, flow over the ice, height and distance of jumps, posture, positions, and stretch.
I can accept Rachael won under CoP but I won't accept that she is a better skater. Not when one considers the "whole package."
The truth is that urs I can't see are meaningless to me. I prefer higher and less labored looking jumps with faster entrances and more ice coverage. I prefer Mirai's jumps and by a lot.
Rachael may deserve to win under CoP but for the things I value most about skating Mirai won in every category. Like you, I would have placed Ashley second and Rachael third. I do have to give Rachael credit for landing those jumps and for being such a determined competitor. And like Evan, she plays the CoP game very well. She is a very good CoP skater.
But there is no law that says I have to find her skating pleasing or enjoyable to watch. That part is still subjective and we are all entitled to have our own preferences.
I think Rachael has a cute and effective SP. I think Mirai's SP is cuter and more effective. Ashley had the most original SP of the three.
I think Rachael is musical and expressive enough but am not able to take her choreo in her LP seriously. There is just so much I don't like about it with some of her positions and movements ranging from comical to just bad.
I prefer Ashley's LP and also Mirai's LP.
I really think Rachael's team could have done a much better job with the music /choreo of that LP. The point is that Rachael has enough abilty, skill and work ethic to show something much more attractive. That program is full of icky moments and silly looking positions. If I didn't think Rachael and her team could do better I wouldn't mention it. The fact that her SP is a winner sort of proves my point.
It is not personal and there is so much to admire about Rachael. That is part of why I feel so disappointed. Watching this with my sister, a former skater who had alot of Dance lessons growing up makes my opinions sound NICE.
She couldn't believe that Rachael got that score and was shocked when Ashley and Mirai were placed under Rachael.
I realize it is just my opinion and that others see it differently.
Congratulations to our new champion and her exceptional abilty to skate well under pressure is something to applaud. I also think Rachael deserves her spot on the team and will represent USA exceptionally well in Vancouver.
Last edited by janetfan; 01-25-2010 at 11:51 AM.
01-25-2010, 11:58 AM
"Hold an edge and look sexy!"
01-25-2010, 11:59 AM
Bona Fide Member
The place where skaters get credit for better spins and spirals is in the GOEs for those elements. Mirai did indeed have the better spins and spirals.
Originally Posted by janetfan
Flying camel 0.43
Flying change combination 0.36
Flying sit 0.43
Change combo 1.07
Spiral 1.57 (!)
So yes, Mirai dominated those categories.
The problem is that because of the lower base values for spins and spirals compared to jumps, the GOEs are pro-rated accordingly. For instance, on Mirai's layback the judges' GOEs were
2, 2, 3, 2, -1(?), 2, 2, 2.
But this tour-de-force translatred only into 0.93 total GOE for the element.
For comparison, Rachaels' GOEs given by international judges at Skate America were
Rachael at SA
Last spin did not count -- too many steps before the change of direction.
Spiral (level 2) 0.50
Comparing Rachael at Nationals with Rachael at Skate America, the GOEs on these not-jump elements added up to a difference of only 1.2 points. Yet if you look at the actual protocols, at Skate America Rachael got almost all straight zeros across the board on all elements, while at Nationals she got a nice sprinkling of +1s and a few +2s.
So I guess what people are arguing for is that greater weight should be given to GOEs on non-jump elements.
As for speed and flow across the ice, Mirai scored 7.75 in skating skills, to Rachael's 7.57. So the judges did rate Mirai higher in this category. It's just that all of these differences in the judges' scores (GOEs and PCSs), all of which favored Mirai, do not add up to even one jump downgrade given by the technical specialist.
Last edited by Mathman; 01-25-2010 at 12:02 PM.
01-25-2010, 12:15 PM
she takes the audience on her journey of emotions
01-25-2010, 12:17 PM
^^ Here's Ashley's FS on Youtube. Not the best quality though
01-25-2010, 12:19 PM