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Thread: Championship Ladies FS

  1. #841
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    My scores (keeping Michelle and Irina in mind)
    That does kind of keep things in perspective.

    Now I want to change my scores to yours.

  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    My scores (keeping Michelle and Irina in mind)

    Rachael - 5.8 and 5.6

    Mirai - 5.7 and 5.8
    Rachael would probably get 5.8s and some 5.9s for her tech, because of the triple-triple. Too bad NBC's camera work was so bad that we couldn't really see how she landed it.

  3. #843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That does kind of keep things in perspective.

    Now I want to change my scores to yours.
    Mirai can improve her IN closer to Michelle before I would give her a 5.9 for presentation. But her skating really sparkled imo - and her spins are better now than Sasha. Her spirals are also close to being in a class of their own.

    Rachel - hmmmm is she really the equal of Irina and Michelle technically? Irina scored many 5.9's for her technical mark but her skating was faster and her jumps so much bigger.

    We tend to think of Michelle for her artistry but so much of it was based on a very strong technique.

    I really can't see Rachel under 6.0 being close to Michelle's equal.

  4. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    So Janetfan disagrees with the judges. Why does that make you so angry? It's a forum, that's allowed. It's not like her so-called "prejudices" are based on any dislike for the person that Rachael is. From what I gather, she is arguing that even IF Mirai underrotated 3 jumps, the rest of her skating was so superior to Rachael's that she should have won. It's a valid argument. I agree. Rachael may land difficult jumps. But she does nothing else very well that I can see. The judges disagreed and I can definitely see their argument. But why can't we disagree?
    Mirai's minor underotations shouldn't bother judges any more than Rachael's plodding spin speed and generally lethargic movement over the ice.

  5. #845
    Dedicated follower of the black line Wicked's Avatar
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    Mirai seemed so happy with her scores and seemed to think they were appropriate. She did not come across as someone who thought she wuzrobbbed. I think she knows what she needs to work on. I'd love to see her skate lights out in Vancouver. I'm just loving her comments about blowing the competition away. BAM, BAM, BAM, indeed!

  6. #846
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    Several posts have mentioned Mirai's respect for Rachael as a competitor and maybe even friend. I do remember when Mirai won 2 years ago, Rachael mentioned in an interview (she was standing there bouncing up and down a little and grinning ear to ear [still with braces then, it was cute]) after the LP I think that she had watched Mirai skate and was so happy for her. Now, I'm not naive enough to think that all among competing athletes is nicey-nice and sweet, but I do think it appears that there is clearly respect between the two but also some genuine camaraderie. Anyone else see that, or am I imagining?

    I like the report of Mirai's "Bam, bam, bam!" comment, too. Gotta go out there with confidence!

  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked View Post
    Mirai seemed so happy with her scores and seemed to think they were appropriate. She did not come across as someone who thought she wuzrobbbed. I think she knows what she needs to work on. I'd love to see her skate lights out in Vancouver. I'm just loving her comments about blowing the competition away. BAM, BAM, BAM, indeed!
    Exactly! She's a lady and not dwelling on the scores of 1 competition. BTW, did she not win the SP? To all those posters who thought Mirai wuzzrobd, I suggest you reread and understand the 5part directive on the Program Component Scores. There is no Performance Score as there was in the .6.0 system. The PC scores cover a multitude of requirements. Compare and contrast with Rachael.

  8. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by rallycairn View Post
    Several posts have mentioned Mirai's respect for Rachael as a competitor and maybe even friend. I do remember when Mirai won 2 years ago, Rachael mentioned in an interview (she was standing there bouncing up and down a little and grinning ear to ear [still with braces then, it was cute]) after the LP I think that she had watched Mirai skate and was so happy for her. Now, I'm not naive enough to think that all among competing athletes is nicey-nice and sweet, but I do think it appears that there is clearly respect between the two but also some genuine camaraderie. Anyone else see that, or am I imagining?

    I like the report of Mirai's "Bam, bam, bam!" comment, too. Gotta go out there with confidence!
    I was one of the posters that mentioned it. And I re-watched the press conference today and I got the sense that they were both excited for each other. That's why I think it's a shame that everyone is making this big deal when it's clear the skaters don't share that animosity that everyone is trying to create.

    I think they are just both excited to go to the Olympics for the first time. I think Mirai will work on the URs and I believe Rachael will on her artistry.

    And one more point: this isn't like the last U.S. championship that these two will compete in. So just because Mirai didn't win this one doesn't mean that she's fated not to win another championship. As others said, she's on the cusp and with a 3X3 on the horizon she'll be hard to beat.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 01-25-2010 at 06:17 PM.

  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Exactly! She's a lady and not dwelling on the scores of 1 competition. BTW, did she not win the SP? To all those posters who thought Mirai wuzzrobd, I suggest you reread and understand the 5part directive on the Program Component Scores. There is no Performance Score as there was in the .6.0 system. The PC scores cover a multitude of requirements. Compare and contrast with Rachael.
    Mirai won that by 1 point. No real contrast and basically a tie.

    That issue happens to be the lead editorial article at Blazing Blades today.

    Like many here they noticed a difference in the skill level between Mirai and Rachael in certain pcs which was in no way reflected in the marks.

    Rachael won the jumps and was scored as Mirai's equal in everything else...

  10. #850
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katymay View Post
    To me, Rachael's lutz edge seemed to flip over at the last second.
    Rachael doesn't flutz at all anymore. She has worked hard to get that jump right.

    You can clearly see how it's more difficult to stay on that outside edge, though - her body tends to lean sideways in the air now on her Lutz and the landings are tighter.

  11. #851
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    I am happy that Mirai and Rachael made the olympic team and can't wait to cheer them on in Vancover. That being said I have some thought on cop.

    I wish that some of the less flexible skaters would do simpler spins that they could do well vs trying the more difficult flexible spins. I think they should crack down on goe. It does not make sense for the system to reward skaters for somthing they can't do.

    I also wish that they could have a sliding scale for urs like they have now with edge calls. If the caller can't see it in real time than just give them a warning mark with negitive goe. If the caller can see it in real time than it should be downgraded.


    These are just my thoughts on the system overall I do like cop though. I can't wait until Vancover.

  12. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Mirai can improve her IN closer to Michelle before I would give her a 5.9 for presentation. But her skating really sparkled imo - and her spins are better now than Sasha. Her spirals are also close to being in a class of their own.

    Rachel - hmmmm is she really the equal of Irina and Michelle technically? Irina scored many 5.9's for her technical mark but her skating was faster and her jumps so much bigger.
    .
    But there was a comparative element to 6.0. If Mirai was a 5.7 in tech and Ashley a 5.8, then some judges would probably put Rachael at 5.9 because she did 7 triples, including a 3-3. The marks under 6.0 don't have meaning from competition to competition, except maybe the 6.0 mark, which is supposed to mean perfection.

  13. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenaj View Post
    Rachael landed more triples than Mirai and Sasha in the short program but was in third.
    Rachael shorted the rotations on her layback spin and got only L1. If she hadn't made that mistake, an L3 on that spin would have given her an additional 0.9 and she would have been in first place in the SP by 0.19. You can be sure you won't see that mistake in Vancouver.

    I think the dismissal of CoP by some posters and the yearning to return to 6.0 is the ostrich burying its head in the sand to avoid reality. CoP isn't going anywhere, and if anything, URs will be more closely monitored than ever.

    It makes no sense to say beautiful flexible skating with multiple technical errors should win over correct technique with less flexibility. Basically, it's Rachael's lack of flexibility which seems to annoy posters. Rachael has a chronic back problem and she is unable to do some of the more complex spin positions. As a result, she gets lower GOE on spins and spiral than skaters who are more flexible. And that probably is not going to change much in the future.

    But by the same token, skaters who cannot fully rotate triples should not be given credit for jumps that are basically overrotated doubles. Rachael doesn't get high GOE for her spins, and Mirai should not get the base value of triple jumps for jumps that are not triples.
    Last edited by chuckm; 01-25-2010 at 10:47 PM.

  14. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Rachael shorted the rotations on her layback spin and got only L1. If she hadn't made that mistake, an L3 on that spin would have given her an additional 0.9 and she would have been in first place in the SP by 0.19. You can be sure you won't see that mistake in Vancouver.

    I think the dismissal of CoP by some posters and the yearning to return to 6.0 is the ostrich burying its head in the sand to avoid reality. CoP isn't going anywhere, and if anything, URs will be more closely monitored than ever.

    It makes no sense to say beautiful flexible skating with multiple technical errors should win over correct technique with less flexibility. Basically, it's Rachael's lack of flexibility which seems to annoy posters. Rachael has a chronic back problem and she is unable to do some of the more complex spin positions. As a result, she gets lower GOE on spins and spiral than skaters who are more flexible. And that probably is not going to change much in the future.

    But by the same token, skaters who cannot fully rotate triples should not be given credit for jumps that are basically overrotated doubles. Rachael doesn't get high GOE for her spins, and Mirai should not get the base value of triple jumps for jumps that are not triples.
    As a Cop advocate you can say that, but what do you tell the general public- the non-skating audience who wishes to tune in during the Olys...they see something like what happened at Nationals with both Flatt and Nagasu in a tie after the SP, skating stellar longs, but the latter bringing the house down. It appears Nagasu should win. But oh no, a mistake barely visible many times even to a trained eye (let alone an untrained one!!!) puts the "more gratifying" performance behind the "good, technically correct but not inspiring" performance. Another reason for viewers to tune out of skating. Just saying, playing DA here. Sure, rules are rules but are you truly FOR them? Or should it change?

  15. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm
    Rachael has a chronic back problem and she is unable to do some of the more complex spin positions.
    Really, a chronic back problem? I never knew that. But it would make sense why her layback seemed to suffer this year. I don't thinks he ever did a beillmann, but she had a gorgeous traditional layback position, and it seemed lacking at Nationals. Dorothy said it best:
    'Get the image of being a tiny little bird out of your head,' " Hamill said in an interview after Flatt's victory. " 'You are an amazing athlete, and you have to build on your strengths. You can't wish and hope and pray for something that you don't have.'

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