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Thread: Championship Ladies FS

  1. #871
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    Chuckm, please stop taking potshots at janetfan. He is not attacking you in any way but raising important questions and making excellent points. There is nothing to be gained by trying to silence critics of this decision. And I really hope you are not trying to argue that only experts have the right to opinions on this forum. (I would have to run for the hills.)

    Personally I don't care for conspiracy theories or the idea of 30-year-old grudges (janetfan, are you a mystery writer? ). But all this controversy does raise again the question of the power vested in one person, the tech caller. Joesitz used to post about this a lot. Anyone, however expert, can make mistakes. It seems this power should be less concentrated.

    Also - ITA with janetfan that publicizing the tech calls in real time would lead to a lot of dissatisfaction... and confusion. Commentators who truly understand COP and are getting live feed from the tech caller would help, though.

  2. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    It is totally different unless the next CoP innovation is to pass out laptops to every fan entering the arena

    I can only conclude that ISU is afraid to announce or show downgrades along witht the score because urs and edge calls that can't be seen by the human eye in realtime would be bound to elicit booing and jeers from the crowd.

    Why else wouldn't they announce and post it on a scoreboard? To get the score they have to also have the dgs so it is obviously availabe.

    No, I think it is necessary to protect the techcallers. Imagine Yuna skating a picture perfect 3x3 and then having it announced with the score that it was downgraded.

    I somehow doubt Yuna's fans would take it passively - and who can blame them.

    It was mentioned there was no booing at Natls - but I wonder how the crowd would have reacted to seeing and hearing Mirai's dg's along with her score.

    They are such cowards and I can barely stomach Speedy and his NEED for so much secrecy.

    The reason for secrecy ceases to exist when you have nothing to hide.
    What you are saying is that the audience should decide the outcome of a competition. Unfortunately, then figure skating would cease to be a sport and would instead become a popularity contest, like the USFS cheesefests which were based on online "voting".

    Of course there was no booing at Nationals, because Rachael won fair and square and the audience knew it.

    There is no secrecy when it comes to the tech team. Their names are disclosed, and their calls are printed right on the protocol. All calls must be agreed to by at least two of the three members of the tech team. For ISU events, the three tech team members must be from three different countries.

  3. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Maybe someday you can enlighten Scott with your vast knowledge of skating and the CoP.
    I am sorry if Scott does not announce events to your exacting requirements - but then why should he?
    I did not say I knew more than Scott icw IJS. I said DAVID KIRBY did.

    Scott is paid big bucks to provide figure skating knowledge to the viewing audience. His comments should be objective and informative. Instead, he is selling his opinion which is often based on nothing more than his emotional reaction. He misleads the viewing audience instead of informing them.
    Last edited by chuckm; 01-26-2010 at 01:46 PM.

  4. #874
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    Has this been posted? Hersh on the flap:
    http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...ys-exhibi.html

  5. #875
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    all this controversy does raise again the question of the power vested in one person, the tech caller. Joesitz used to post about this a lot. Anyone, however expert, can make mistakes. It seems this power should be less concentrated.
    First of all, there is NOT one caller. The tech team is composed of three people:

    Technical Specialist
    Assistant Technical Specialist
    Technical Controller (who is a judge)

    The technical specialist and assistant technical specialist must agree on a call. If they do not agree, then the technical controller has the deciding vote.

    publicizing the tech calls in real time would lead to a lot of dissatisfaction... and confusion. Commentators who truly understand COP and are getting live feed from the tech caller would help, though
    The NBC commentators do not truly understand CoP and in fact constantly criticize the IJS because they consider it too difficult. But surely they could be trained to understand the protocols, which are immediately available online along with the marks. The calls are shown right on the protocol.

    So while waiting for the marks, it would be far better to remark on the overall performance of each skater while showing the replay, and wait for the protocol before declaring victory for one competitor over another. Then if the performance turned out not to be as technically pure as it may have appeared, the reason why could be explained to the viewing audience.
    Last edited by chuckm; 01-26-2010 at 01:56 PM.

  6. #876
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    OK, thanks for the correction. Then I guess I join janetfan, Hersh, and apparently Evan Lysacek in questioning the scoring system itself.

  7. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I did not say I knew more than Scott icw IJS. I said DAVID KIRBY did.

    Scott is paid big bucks to provide figure skating knowledge to the viewing audience. His comments should be objective and informative. Instead, he is selling his opinion which is often based on nothing more than his emotional reaction. He misleads the viewing audience instead of informing them.
    I don't think Scott is under any obligation to call an event to your standards.
    I particularly like that he does get emotional because it means he sees what many other fans are seeing.

    It is fine for you to disagree with me or Scott about this.
    But for many of us skating is much more than a column of numbers. There is something more to it than that. Scott feels it - and so do I.

  8. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    OK, thanks for the correction. Then I guess I join janetfan, Hersh, and apparently Evan Lysacek in questioning the scoring system itself.
    The judging system isn't perfect. But it IS the system in place, and until something better is put in place, IJS is the criteria for measuring skating performance. Hersh, janetfan and Lysacek are entitled to their opinions, but they are only opinions and not fact.

    Hersh has never been a fan of IJS because he doesn't quite understand it and he is most critical of it when his favorites don't come out on top (as is janetfan).

    Evan Lysacek, like Mirai, is trained by Frank Carroll, and of course he is going to rubberstamp Frank's opinion. Evan himself has benefitted from IJS much of the time by receiving inflated PCS scores despite his sometimes questionable technique. Evan was also in a pout because HE didn't win the Men's championship---which was also the right call.
    Last edited by chuckm; 01-26-2010 at 02:13 PM.

  9. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I don't think Scott is under any obligation to call an event to your standards.
    I particularly like that he does get emotional because it means he sees what many other fans are seeing.

    It is fine for you to disagree with me or Scott about this.
    But for many of us skating is much more than a column of numbers. There is something more to it than that. Scott feels it - and so do I.
    Sure, you're entitled to feel what you feel. So am I and the many, many audience members who appreciated both Rachael's and Mirai's performances but agreed that the outcome was the correct one.

    But Scott is paid to provide correct information, not publicize his personal preferences.

  10. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Sure, you're entitled to feel what you feel. So am I and the many, many audience members who appreciated both Rachael's and Mirai's performances but agreed that the outcome was the correct one.

    But Scott is paid to provide correct information, not publicize his personal preferences.
    Are you Scott's employer? Have you seen his contract with NBC?

    I don't think either of us knows the terms of his contract and the exact definition of his job.

    The fact that he has been doing it for quite a while leads me to believe NBC is OK with Scott's broadcasting of figure skating.

  11. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Are you Scott's employer? Have you seen his contract with NBC?

    I don't think either of us knows the terms of his contract and the exact definition of his job.

    The fact that he has been doing it for quite a while leads me to believe NBC is OK with Scott's broadcasting of figure skating.
    The fact that one's been doing it for a while doesn't mean one is good at it.
    What's with all "the fact is"

  12. #882
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    I did notice at the last Olympics that Dick Button was originally going to sit on the commentary only for ice dance. But after a day of Scott and Sandra, suddenly Dick was on every broadcast.

    Why? Because Dick kept Scott from going over the top with his commentary.

    Personally, I never could stand Scott's high pitched voice and skewed preferences--even when he liked the same skaters I did.

    I suspect Scott insisted on a very long term contract, and NBC didn't bother to consider an alternative.

  13. #883
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I did notice at the last Olympics that Dick Button was originally going to sit on the commentary only for ice dance. But after a day of Scott and Sandra, suddenly Dick was on every broadcast.

    Why? Because Dick kept Scott from going over the top with his commentary.

    Personally, I never could stand Scott's high pitched voice and skewed preferences--even when he liked the same skaters I did.

    I suspect Scott insisted on a very long term contract, and NBC didn't bother to consider an alternative.
    That's possible and I still like hearing Dick Button although I don't know that for me it has any relation to Scott.

    I thought Costas did a good job as Button's foil last weekend and they seemed to get along OK - even as Costas was letting us know he thinks the old guy might be missing a few of his marbles.

  14. #884
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    he may be experienced but he totally missted sasha ur on the long and ashley in the short on the fall--
    i am not going to repeat myself about what i really think-but it is getting more and more obvious regarding which race mistakes they overlook and which ones they don't as stated earlier-if they want you up there they will overlook you mistakes vs not.

  15. #885
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    At least Dick Button never declared the winner of a competition before the marks were posted. He would, if pressed, say who he thought would win before the skating started, but kept his comments after a performance to the performance itself, not the outcome.

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