Pairs LP results
- Thread starter lulu
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T&M deserved the win but they were kinda dull.
S&Z still have to find a decent comfort level with their new program.
Z&S are definitely improved. They may have doubled their jumps but they have some really nice choreography. They were a highlight.
L&A didn't have a good night. The bright side of it all is that their LP is just awesome and has amazing potential.
P&W were so refreshing. It was nice to see a well balanced program with a throw in the last 30 seconds.
S&Z still have to find a decent comfort level with their new program.
Z&S are definitely improved. They may have doubled their jumps but they have some really nice choreography. They were a highlight.
L&A didn't have a good night. The bright side of it all is that their LP is just awesome and has amazing potential.
P&W were so refreshing. It was nice to see a well balanced program with a throw in the last 30 seconds.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Hey Mike - I too find Tand M dull (from last year). They are not B and S.
I would say without seeing the skate that S and Z are working on their program. Much of these Gran Prixe skates are working out the kinks for the Big One in Dortmund.
Joe
I would say without seeing the skate that S and Z are working on their program. Much of these Gran Prixe skates are working out the kinks for the Big One in Dortmund.
Joe
T&M are not only dull, they skate like robots! She, especially, is expressionless at all times. And they don't relate to one another at all while they are skating.
A poster who attended the event said on another board that S/Z were doing their new program for the first time, and they had several bobbles and a fall. If you look at the marks for the FS, the Chinese outscored the Russians in EVERY presentation category. T/M won because they were doing "Cotton Club" from last year, and had no mistakes: they won purely on the technical mark. Once the Chinese have mastered their new program and can perform it cleanly, T/M will have no advantage.
Look for a rematch in the GPF, and see who comes out on top.
A poster who attended the event said on another board that S/Z were doing their new program for the first time, and they had several bobbles and a fall. If you look at the marks for the FS, the Chinese outscored the Russians in EVERY presentation category. T/M won because they were doing "Cotton Club" from last year, and had no mistakes: they won purely on the technical mark. Once the Chinese have mastered their new program and can perform it cleanly, T/M will have no advantage.
Look for a rematch in the GPF, and see who comes out on top.
T/M have confirmed that they have been working on a new program, so if it's good we'll see who wins.http://www.isu.org/vsite/vcontent/content/transnews/0,10869,4844-128590-19728-18885-106554-3787-4771-layout46-129898-news-item,00.html
Exact quote:
“We are working on a new free program, but it’s still secret and we’ll skate it at Russian Nationals for the first time”, Totmianina revealed.
I hope it's good, Cotton Club had me snoozin. S/Z said that that they didn't have much practice on their new program due to SARS
in China, but I'm still rooting for S/Z all the way.
BTW, when is Russian Nats and when is the GPF?
Exact quote:
“We are working on a new free program, but it’s still secret and we’ll skate it at Russian Nationals for the first time”, Totmianina revealed.
I hope it's good, Cotton Club had me snoozin. S/Z said that that they didn't have much practice on their new program due to SARS
in China, but I'm still rooting for S/Z all the way.
BTW, when is Russian Nats and when is the GPF?
Pairs LP
Marcoux and Buntin:
They had a much better free skate than SP. This couple does have a lot of potential, but I still think she's a better skater than he is and they need to work on bringing his level up to hers.
Putnam and Wirtz: I think this team could win a world gold medal for Canada over the next few years. There is still room for improvement, but the potential is definitely there. They have a very Berezhnya/Sikhurlidze (sp sorry) quality to me, which is a big compliment. Their lines are gorgeous and they are both strong singles skaters which really helps. I find myself pretty relaxed as they go into the jumps, something I can't say about a lot of pairs. They also have the performance ability and artistic qualities necessary to really make it big. Their programs are still a little on the elementary side, but I expect them to add the necessary difficulty in years to come.
Langlois and Archetto: Unfortunately they didn't have a great LP, but the program shows tremendous potential. I love their innovation in tweaking moves to make them all their own (eg. the spread eagle spiral where she leans back on his knees with her back arched and head back - beautiful). Combined with their fantastic SP this year I think they could really break into the top tier of world skaters.
Zagorska and Suidek: They've come a long way in the artistic side. At times I still find them not connecting on the ice, but perhaps that will come as they become more comfortable with the program as the year progresses.
Shen/Zhao: OK, I don't adore this couple as many of the commentators seem to and it annoyed me the entire way through the performance as Debbie gushed. I just kept saying 'shut up' to my screen. I completely acknowledge this team's technical greatness. Their jumps are most often on, they have huge throws, and a huge twist with great speed. On the other hand I find them sloppy and jerky. In almost all of her air positions on lifts I want to tell her to properly straighten her legs, and on landings I find he tends to drop, rather than gently place her on the ice. I do not find that they connect with each other on the ice, thought they have improved in this department. I find their spins are weak and often clutchy. I don't think they're a bad team, don't get me wrong, I just think there is still a lot of room for improvement in some areas and the superlatives about them annoy me. Their performance wasn't that smooth at this competition, and the fall really was disruptive, though not on a major element. I'm sure the program will grow throughout the season and I'll be interested to see it again later.
Totmianina and Marinin: They definitely deserved the win, though it wasn't a jump out of your chair performance. This couple really needs to work on lifts. Compared to what the other couples are doing theirs are very basic. I also find them somewhat slow in places. I'll be interested to see what their new program is for this season.
Marcoux and Buntin:
They had a much better free skate than SP. This couple does have a lot of potential, but I still think she's a better skater than he is and they need to work on bringing his level up to hers.
Putnam and Wirtz: I think this team could win a world gold medal for Canada over the next few years. There is still room for improvement, but the potential is definitely there. They have a very Berezhnya/Sikhurlidze (sp sorry) quality to me, which is a big compliment. Their lines are gorgeous and they are both strong singles skaters which really helps. I find myself pretty relaxed as they go into the jumps, something I can't say about a lot of pairs. They also have the performance ability and artistic qualities necessary to really make it big. Their programs are still a little on the elementary side, but I expect them to add the necessary difficulty in years to come.
Langlois and Archetto: Unfortunately they didn't have a great LP, but the program shows tremendous potential. I love their innovation in tweaking moves to make them all their own (eg. the spread eagle spiral where she leans back on his knees with her back arched and head back - beautiful). Combined with their fantastic SP this year I think they could really break into the top tier of world skaters.
Zagorska and Suidek: They've come a long way in the artistic side. At times I still find them not connecting on the ice, but perhaps that will come as they become more comfortable with the program as the year progresses.
Shen/Zhao: OK, I don't adore this couple as many of the commentators seem to and it annoyed me the entire way through the performance as Debbie gushed. I just kept saying 'shut up' to my screen. I completely acknowledge this team's technical greatness. Their jumps are most often on, they have huge throws, and a huge twist with great speed. On the other hand I find them sloppy and jerky. In almost all of her air positions on lifts I want to tell her to properly straighten her legs, and on landings I find he tends to drop, rather than gently place her on the ice. I do not find that they connect with each other on the ice, thought they have improved in this department. I find their spins are weak and often clutchy. I don't think they're a bad team, don't get me wrong, I just think there is still a lot of room for improvement in some areas and the superlatives about them annoy me. Their performance wasn't that smooth at this competition, and the fall really was disruptive, though not on a major element. I'm sure the program will grow throughout the season and I'll be interested to see it again later.
Totmianina and Marinin: They definitely deserved the win, though it wasn't a jump out of your chair performance. This couple really needs to work on lifts. Compared to what the other couples are doing theirs are very basic. I also find them somewhat slow in places. I'll be interested to see what their new program is for this season.
Re: Pairs LP
hmmm...interesting observation about Valerie being a better skater. Compare to Bruno, Craig is much closer to Valerie. At least the difference in terms of skating ability is not as obvious as when she was paired up with Bruno who was truly the better pair skater by far.
I also like their lines and classical but since I am biased toward strong pairs skaters rather than strong single skaters, I keep noticing their problems with various pairs elements such as the split twist and death spiral(she does not go down down down as say Kristy Wirtz or Barbara Underhill because she is tall). He has problems lifting her and pushing her high so that she can do the split twist with ease. The twist is low. I am not sure what it is but I think that their lack of a big height difference is why they are not strong in some of the pairs elements. Other than that, I agree with you, they have something special and great things are gonna happen to them. Note: Rod Black has not jinxed them yet by saying "...and maybe one day they will become world championships"
I love them this year because they have found their own style. Last year, they were drawing from all past great pairs skaters but this year, they decided to do their own thing...their music(SP and LP) are unique in that not many pairs have used them lately. Secondly, they are drawing ideas from dance. . Lori Nichol did and now Morosov is doing it. I think it was great idea for them to blend dance with pairs skating. John Curry would definitely approve.
WOHOOO to RICHARD GAUTHIER. 'nuff said.
They are certainly the most improved skaters this year.
I agree with you there is room for improvement. However, I like her height in the air when they do a throw.
Sometimes they are dull but they now they have a softness in their skating that I like. I agree they deserve their win. Let us see if their new program will make them world champions this year.
rain said:
hmmm...interesting observation about Valerie being a better skater. Compare to Bruno, Craig is much closer to Valerie. At least the difference in terms of skating ability is not as obvious as when she was paired up with Bruno who was truly the better pair skater by far.
I also like their lines and classical but since I am biased toward strong pairs skaters rather than strong single skaters, I keep noticing their problems with various pairs elements such as the split twist and death spiral(she does not go down down down as say Kristy Wirtz or Barbara Underhill because she is tall). He has problems lifting her and pushing her high so that she can do the split twist with ease. The twist is low. I am not sure what it is but I think that their lack of a big height difference is why they are not strong in some of the pairs elements. Other than that, I agree with you, they have something special and great things are gonna happen to them. Note: Rod Black has not jinxed them yet by saying "...and maybe one day they will become world championships"
I love them this year because they have found their own style. Last year, they were drawing from all past great pairs skaters but this year, they decided to do their own thing...their music(SP and LP) are unique in that not many pairs have used them lately. Secondly, they are drawing ideas from dance. . Lori Nichol did and now Morosov is doing it. I think it was great idea for them to blend dance with pairs skating. John Curry would definitely approve.
WOHOOO to RICHARD GAUTHIER. 'nuff said.
They are certainly the most improved skaters this year.
I agree with you there is room for improvement. However, I like her height in the air when they do a throw.
Sometimes they are dull but they now they have a softness in their skating that I like. I agree they deserve their win. Let us see if their new program will make them world champions this year.
Marcoux & Buntin - she is a very good skater, and Buntin certainly is a better match for her. We'll see how they do in time, they are certainly interesting to watch.
Totmianina and Marinin (sigh)........they are members of the Eltsova and Bushkov style of skating. I don't know what it is about some pairs that make them appear to be so wooden.
They are talented people, with strong skating skills, and boring as hell. Petrova and Tikhonov appear to be that way as well.
I've tried to think of music that would bring some snap to their performances. And I just draw a blank.
Putnam and Wirtz, are wonderful to watch. But they have a problem with the twist. They are too close in height.
Totmianina and Marinin (sigh)........they are members of the Eltsova and Bushkov style of skating. I don't know what it is about some pairs that make them appear to be so wooden.
They are talented people, with strong skating skills, and boring as hell. Petrova and Tikhonov appear to be that way as well.
I've tried to think of music that would bring some snap to their performances. And I just draw a blank.
Putnam and Wirtz, are wonderful to watch. But they have a problem with the twist. They are too close in height.
Is it my imagination or have some of the top pairs teams tended to use the same short and/or long program for more than one year more often over the last few years? Berez/Sik used "Chaplin" for quite a while into the Olympic season before they did "Meditation by Thais" in competition. Sale/Pell reused "Love Story." Shen/Zhao used "Turandot" for two years. Tot/Mar have been using "Cotton Club" since '01/02. There may be others, but those are the ones that come to mind. Shen/Zhao's use of "Turandot" for two years makes sense because it was the first time they worked with a western choreographer, Lee Ann Miller, and it seemed to me a significant notch up from the choreography they had been doing. Anybody else see a trend or is it just coincidence? If it is a trend in pairs, any guesses as to why?
Rain--You mentioned Xue Shen not straightening her legs properly. She has hyperflexed knees. If you look at her knees on every element, like spirals or whatever, her knees always looks slightly bent. I'm not arguing with your reasons for not being a S/Z fan nor would I. Just making a point that Shen's knees are built that way. It's the same as being bowlegged or having hyperextended knees.
Speaking of Shen/Zhao, anybody know what music they're skating to and who choreographed their SP and LP? Also, anybody who was there, what was Yulia Obertas's new partner like? Do they look promising as a team despite the results? She looked so impressive last season and seemed held back by a weaker partner. Also, how does the Chinese team of Ding & Ren look?
Rgirl
Rain--You mentioned Xue Shen not straightening her legs properly. She has hyperflexed knees. If you look at her knees on every element, like spirals or whatever, her knees always looks slightly bent. I'm not arguing with your reasons for not being a S/Z fan nor would I. Just making a point that Shen's knees are built that way. It's the same as being bowlegged or having hyperextended knees.
Speaking of Shen/Zhao, anybody know what music they're skating to and who choreographed their SP and LP? Also, anybody who was there, what was Yulia Obertas's new partner like? Do they look promising as a team despite the results? She looked so impressive last season and seemed held back by a weaker partner. Also, how does the Chinese team of Ding & Ren look?
Rgirl
Rgirl said:
They skates to Nutcracker. I don't know which piece of music. I'm a dummy as far as musics go. It is choreographed by an American (heard the commentator said, but did not mentioned the name). You can download most SC program from this site:
http://www.china-ice.com/2635/dispbbs.asp?boardID=309&ID=481
I have a fluffy piece of their interview with CCTV. Where they talked how they became they are today. It is very interesting. They became partner when she was 14 and he was 19, at time he was National pair champion, she was a single skater with limited tech difficulty. There were three girls try out for he to pick. He picked Shen. At the time she was so little and slow, he was fast and power, often he went so fast and lost her on ice. After 2 month trainning together the first time test in front of coach they fall on all place on the simple elements. Every one shake head and said like that it may take at least one year for them to skated a little like pair. Shen said she was young then, all she knew just trainning hard, and want to show people she can do it. The coach taught two of them together, then after wards Zhao taught her how to jump, she learned the 3t from Zhao. So Shen actually trainned in double session. After 6 month they win their first National title. It really is a moving moment when they talked how Zhao take care Shen as a little sister. When Shen was young, at the time the washer was not commanly used in China, Zhao help wash Shen's winter coat manually since it was so heavy Shen couldn't do it herself. There are rearly top team had their experience. I think this also explained how strong she is, with such an injury but skated like that at last worlds.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
My feelings on the Skate Canada Pairs:
Shen and Zhao - I was very surprised they went for a Tschaikowsky piece. The Grand Pas de Deux from Nutcracker is quite a lyrical piece of music, and one which must be skated (danced) without flaws. A small bobble will break the lyrical spell that this music demands. The choreography, imo, is ok - nothing special. there are parts that need to be reworked. However, what surprised me most was that they could handle this. (It's more a B&S type of music.) I think with more run-throughs this program will be ready for Worlds.
Tot and Mar - I was glad that to hear that Cotton Club will be discarded soon. The choreography is quite good, but they still haven't gotten the feeling of the blues and jazz. I think the best skaters for this kind of music is Kurt Browning and Kristi Yamaguchi.
The results: GP results don't get to me because I think of them as rehearsals for the skaters' respective Nats and, of course, Worlds.
Joe
Shen and Zhao - I was very surprised they went for a Tschaikowsky piece. The Grand Pas de Deux from Nutcracker is quite a lyrical piece of music, and one which must be skated (danced) without flaws. A small bobble will break the lyrical spell that this music demands. The choreography, imo, is ok - nothing special. there are parts that need to be reworked. However, what surprised me most was that they could handle this. (It's more a B&S type of music.) I think with more run-throughs this program will be ready for Worlds.
Tot and Mar - I was glad that to hear that Cotton Club will be discarded soon. The choreography is quite good, but they still haven't gotten the feeling of the blues and jazz. I think the best skaters for this kind of music is Kurt Browning and Kristi Yamaguchi.
The results: GP results don't get to me because I think of them as rehearsals for the skaters' respective Nats and, of course, Worlds.
Joe
Did you notice Joesitz? Zhao paid too much attention to Shen through out the program while Shen concentrating herself totally in program and skated with more expression than Zhao. The most obvious moment was before they started their footwork, seems like Zhao tried to remind Shen of something.
At CoC, they changed their program (add two more elements) at the morning of LP. In an interview Zhao said he has to keep gently remind Shen through out the program.
Having watched that fluffy piece of them and watch their performance on ice, it is interesting to see subtle moment.
At CoC, they changed their program (add two more elements) at the morning of LP. In an interview Zhao said he has to keep gently remind Shen through out the program.
Having watched that fluffy piece of them and watch their performance on ice, it is interesting to see subtle moment.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I didn't really notice that but I think I still have the tape and I'll take another look.
I really don't think Zhao should be whispering the next move to Shen. I think she is a very strong skater. That could not disconcerting to Shen if she knows what she is doing.
Midway throught the routing, it seemed the music had a lot of swells which they did not take advantage of except for a few spirals and spread eagles. I hope they put those new moves in there.
The Grand Pas de Deux in Nutcracker is just the two principals dancing to a love duet. That's the message Shen and Zhao should be showing.
Joe
I really don't think Zhao should be whispering the next move to Shen. I think she is a very strong skater. That could not disconcerting to Shen if she knows what she is doing.
Midway throught the routing, it seemed the music had a lot of swells which they did not take advantage of except for a few spirals and spread eagles. I hope they put those new moves in there.
The Grand Pas de Deux in Nutcracker is just the two principals dancing to a love duet. That's the message Shen and Zhao should be showing.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I would never miss a S&Z performance.
Joe
Joe
The Nutcracker choreography is by Leann Miller, and I think it is beautful. I think it has the best pair spin I have ever seen them do, and she (Shen) has really improved the use of her arms. I think when they get this program down they will be very hard to beat.
Obertas (sp?) and new partner are just gorgeous. They need some great music and choregraphy, and the experience that brings confidence and performing skills. But the line, the stroking, the posture. Ah. I am excited about watching them develop.
Obertas (sp?) and new partner are just gorgeous. They need some great music and choregraphy, and the experience that brings confidence and performing skills. But the line, the stroking, the posture. Ah. I am excited about watching them develop.
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