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Thread: Should Mao include the 3 ax in Vancouver?

  1. #16
    Rinkside
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    I think Mao's 3A is not perfect. Her 3A is UR and sometimes cheated.

    but cuz she don't have 3-3 combo and 3lz, she should include her 3A in the "LONG program".

  2. #17
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    At this point of time, perhaps there's no choice for her but to go for it. Her confidence seems to be dependent on that jump, and things seem to be looking better than before. She would regret if she doesn't try it. Her backup plan is not meant to be for that. It's only for the case when her 3A turns into 2A. So I don't see it happening. She also does not have the coach to help such a strategic decision-making.

    It's just too late to change anything.

  3. #18
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    I wonder why it's harder for her to land one in SP compared to LP. The chances of her landing two 3A in LP seems to be higher than just one in SP. Is it because she needs to have a set up for this jump but in SP, there is not enough time in the beg for the set up so she doesn't have enough speed going in?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I wonder why it's harder for her to land one in SP compared to LP. The chances of her landing two 3A in LP seems to be higher than just one in SP. Is it because she needs to have a set up for this jump but in SP, there is not enough time in the beg for the set up so she doesn't have enough speed going in?
    I think Is more difficult because is just one and its crucial, she get very nervous.

    and of course Mao needs try 3 3a in Vancouver, she has not option (if she wants the gold medal).Right now is very late for a change.

  5. #20
    Always Believed! Sk8n Mama's Avatar
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    of course Mao needs try 3 3a in Vancouver, she has not option (if she wants the gold medal)
    I disagree. I don't think she needs 3 of them. What are the odds of her completing the rotation in the short? If not, she'll be credited for a double axel. Wouldn't any other fully rotated jump be better? Also, she has to do a circle of crossovers into the 3ax and that has to hurt her from a Program Components prespective. I don't see Tarasova being able to let go of the 3ax, I don't know about the Japanese Federation. If I were her coach, I'd let her try it in the LP (just one) and play it safe in the short. If she goes for the 3axa nd underrotates it, she'd better hope the other contenders miss the combo completely. I think Mao has a good shot at the gold without the 3ax but not with it, even if it's landed, unless all 3 are completed rotated (which I just do not see happening).

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice&Glass View Post
    She should go for the 3fl-3lo combination instead. Lesson we learned from mao this season: if you're recycling a program, work on it (not just 3A!) and bring a better version at least for the fans' sake!
    I don't think she owes her fans anything. Of course, she'll want to do well for her fans and herself, but to do something for her fans' sake, I don't think so.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice&Glass View Post
    She should go for the 3fl-3lo combination instead. Lesson we learned from mao this season: if you're recycling a program, work on it (not just 3A!) and bring a better version at least for the fans' sake!
    I don't think Mao can do 3f-3lo anymore....and even if she can the tech callers will most likely give her a UR call, a 3-3 with a loop on the back end is extremely hard to get ratified. Mao's better off going for the 3a, I mean last year she did two 3a's in her LP and even that wasn't enough to get a medal at worlds, she needs it unless she wants to rely on others' mistakes to get an Olympic medal. Plus if she does three 3a's and they are all ratified she will break history i think.

  8. #23
    Mashimaro on Ice
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I don't think Mao can do 3f-3lo anymore....and even if she can the tech callers will most likely give her a UR call, a 3-3 with a loop on the back end is extremely hard to get ratified. Mao's better off going for the 3a, I mean last year she did two 3a's in her LP and even that wasn't enough to get a medal at worlds, she needs it unless she wants to rely on others' mistakes to get an Olympic medal. Plus if she does three 3a's and they are all ratified she will break history i think.
    But she didn't really succeessfully do two 3as at worlds. She fell on the second one. In a recent interview, the reason why she isn't doing 3f-3lo in programs was because she was having problems with her 3F beginning of this season. So she decided not to put it in.

  9. #24
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sk8n Mama View Post
    I disagree. I don't think she needs 3 of them. What are the odds of her completing the rotation in the short? If not, she'll be credited for a double axel. Wouldn't any other fully rotated jump be better? Also, she has to do a circle of crossovers into the 3ax and that has to hurt her from a Program Components prespective. I don't see Tarasova being able to let go of the 3ax, I don't know about the Japanese Federation. If I were her coach, I'd let her try it in the LP (just one) and play it safe in the short. If she goes for the 3axa nd underrotates it, she'd better hope the other contenders miss the combo completely. I think Mao has a good shot at the gold without the 3ax but not with it, even if it's landed, unless all 3 are completed rotated (which I just do not see happening).
    The problem is that TAT and Mao have been away since CoR, which is many months ago. TAT skipped Nationals for something else and was unable to come to 4cc, either, due to health concerns. She is unable to come to Japan, either, to prepare for the Games. They will only meet her a couple of days before the SP. Mao has been virtually coachless again and I can't imagine TAT has any responsobility for Mao's decisions at this point of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    But she didn't really succeessfully do two 3as at worlds. She fell on the second one. In a recent interview, the reason why she isn't doing 3f-3lo in programs was because she was having problems with her 3F beginning of this season. So she decided not to put it in.
    What kinds of problems were they? And why did she come to have problems?
    Last edited by Bennett; 02-07-2010 at 07:08 AM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    What kinds of problems were they? And why did she come to have problems?
    In an interview after Nationals, she said the flip had been bothering her in the beginning of the season and it was mostly a timing of the takeoff that she was not getting correctly. I am not sure why she came to have this problem but I know that she tried to fix it by watching old videos of her skating (where she did it correctly). About TAT, since she communicates through her assistant to Mao, shouldn't she still be partially responsible?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    In an interview after Nationals, she said the flip had been bothering her in the beginning of the season and it was mostly a timing of the takeoff that she was not getting correctly. I am not sure why she came to have this problem but I know that she tried to fix it by watching old videos of her skating (where she did it correctly). About TAT, since she communicates through her assistant to Mao, shouldn't she still be partially responsible?
    well, if Mao win the olympics Tat will say that she is her coach, but if Mao lose, I see Tat weeks or months after saying all its was Maos fault, or Maos mom fault, all but her:sheesh:. I know in 4cc Tat was sick, but why she was at europeans which are not so important.?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by chapis View Post
    well, if Mao win the olympics Tat will say that she is her coach, but if Mao lose, I see Tat weeks or months after saying all its was Maos fault, or Maos mom fault, all but her:sheesh:. I know in 4cc Tat was sick, but why she was at europeans which are not so important.?
    Well, that's a little unfair to TAT. The Europeans were before the 4CC. In between the two competitions, TAT's blood pressure rose so much that she had to be hospitalized. It's not like she didn't want to come. It's also much closer to Russia - the trip is not as taxing on her health. TAT also has her own priorities. When she took in Mao, she made clear that she can only be a part-time coach, but Mao wanted her all the same. I love Mao, but I sometimes question Mao's discretion. If she had known TAT has other priorities (like coaching the little Russian jumping beans and staying in Russia with her ill family members), shouldn't she have at least thought of a back-up plan for when matters came to this? Everyone complains about TAT's choreography and costumes, but in the end Mao has the last say. She chose Bells. She likes her pink SP costume and her red and black LP costume. She wants three 3As in the program. I just think people should stop heeping the blame on TAT.

    But to answer the question, yes Mao should include the 3A. She loves the jump so much, and it has now become her signature move. How many, really, is the question. I think two in the LP is reasonable (if she insists), but ideally she would attempt only one. None in the SP. I understand that Mao wants to make history with three 3As and a record score, but I don't know if she can pull it off.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    Well, that's a little unfair to TAT. The Europeans were before the 4CC. In between the two competitions, TAT's blood pressure rose so much that she had to be hospitalized. It's not like she didn't want to come. It's also much closer to Russia - the trip is not as taxing on her health. TAT also has her own priorities. When she took in Mao, she made clear that she can only be a part-time coach, but Mao wanted her all the same. I love Mao, but I sometimes question Mao's discretion. If she had known TAT has other priorities (like coaching the little Russian jumping beans and staying in Russia with her ill family members), shouldn't she have at least thought of a back-up plan for when matters came to this? Everyone complains about TAT's choreography and costumes, but in the end Mao has the last say. She chose Bells. She likes her pink SP costume and her red and black LP costume. She wants three 3As in the program. I just think people should stop heeping the blame on TAT.

    But to answer the question, yes Mao should include the 3A. She loves the jump so much, and it has now become her signature move. How many, really, is the question. I think two in the LP is reasonable (if she insists), but ideally she would attempt only one. None in the SP. I understand that Mao wants to make history with three 3As and a record score, but I don't know if she can pull it off.
    I know Mao has responsability about her skating and seems very independent. About Tat, in fact I like the programs and some her costumes for Mao but I tell you, at first when Mao went to Tat, Tat was super happy and I never heard she specificed that she was only her consultant, next when Mao was really bad Tat suddenly say she is not her coach, only consultant, very opportune:sheesh:. Mao and Tat talked about Mao supposly went sometimes to Russia and Tat went to Japan sometimes, but when was Tat turn Tat had excuses very often for not to go. in 4cc last year her sister was sick, I understand, but in WTT I know is not an important event, but for Mao, after her 4place in worlds it was very important for her, and she showed it, and yes Tat was in russia. In Japan nats Tat didnt go because she was in Russian nats, again Mao was in a very difficult moment. At the olympics when Mao will be sit waiting the scores, Tat will be there but we all know she did not coach her, her real coach is Folle, and is a very unknown coach, then is like Mao will be alone.

    After read this, looks like yes, Mao has a lot of fault, but Mao accept all the responsability always, then the only thing I hope is that in the Olympics, Tat accept her responsability part of the situation.

    In a positive mind I want think that its Tats way to say to Mao “Mao all this is not working, you need a full time coach, please find somebody”

    Sorry my english

  14. #29
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    Mao should definitely include the 3A in LONG program assuming that others make zero to about two mistakes. If she includes one/two 3A(s) and be successful with at least one/both, then she has high chance of medaling in the event. She can play safe depending on how her starting order comes out, but if the others (Yu-Na, Joannie, Miki, Rachael, etc) go clean, then Mao needs to go clean with 3A to medal, since she has no 3Lz/3S.

    But I don't think she should include 3A in the short program. If she makes mistake on her 3A and actually do 2A, then she better remember to replace her 2A with some other triple jump or else she won't get credit for the second 2A at all. It would be so costly, and Olympics would be such a huge pressure for everybody that it's possible for skaters to make those kinds of mistakes. Also, she hasn't shown very much consistency with her 3A in her short program, so she might continue struggling with it in the short program.

    That said, I hope she lands at least one 3A in her program & go clean! (It'd be nice if she lands all 3, but realistically speaking, I'll be very happy if she lands at least one).

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