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Thread: Ladies Free Skate

  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Thanks for your post, yunasashafan! I will try to not let negative comments prevent me from enjoying both of these two talented skaters I wish all the top contenders skate well at the Olympics. In one of my earlier posts, I said that my ideal Olympic scenario was that Mao lands three 3As, Miki lands a quad, Rochette skates 2 clean programs, and Yuna breaks 300.

  2. #257
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    As much as it pains me to say it, all signs point to a repeat of 1998.
    I don't know if I see it this way. I think one of team Kwan's problems was they underestimated Lipinski. Everyone told Michelle that if she was clean she'd win. And her father told her to skate safely which she did. She was according to people who were there slow-slower than she was at Nationals. And really maybe her injury did prevent her from doing the 3toe/3toe but I wonder if even then she would have kept it considering she replaced her 3flip with a 3toe for the short. I guess what I'm saying is I don't think Michelle really went in there fighting.

    In contrast, while Yu-na may have been hearing the unbeatable talk earlier. I think she's gotten more than a few wake up calls. I suspect that GPF was a way bigger wakeup call than Skate America because Ando was one 3/3 or double axel/3toe from beating Yu-na out right. And I think Yu-na talking her 3lip suggests someone who isn't trying to place it safe this year. Orser said she'll be going in there fighting. If Yu-na doesn't win, I really think it will be more of a Salt Lake thing than a Nagano thing but we will see. But with Mao skating better and stuff I don't see Yu-na going in there skating not to lose.

  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice&Glass View Post
    miki88, I think it's the latter. i think find this author saying kim "fought to hold back a smile" pretty laughable. a little stretch of imagination? as a fan who have been rooting for her since her junior years, i find this kind of nonsense somewhat disturbing. is it really how they see her??? holding back a smile because one of her rivals didn't make it to GPF?
    kim is very well known for being considerate, kind and respectful. during recent korean press conference, yuna said firmly that she believes mao will overcome whatever she's struggling with and will come back to olympic stronger. of course yuna sees mao as her big threat... afterall, isn't it same way for mao? sorry my reply is getting longer, but i just dislike the negative image this author is tyring to portray and am sad that many will believe this is true. why can't they just enjoy yuna/mao' awesome skating?
    yuna and mao were once good friends. it is unfortunate that more and more articles like this make it harder for them to stay as good friends. must be real tough for two 19 year-olds.. i really feel for them already
    It is nothing more than a reporter's interpretation to make the story more interesting. That's too bad. All the interviews I've see of Mao is one of trying to portray confidence. All the interviews I've seen of Yuna where she is actually talking, not being quoted, (including in Korean) there is certain amount of deference to "luck" or "fortune" one needs to win a OGM no matter how good you are or how well you are prepared. Korean word for it is pronounced "woon". It means fortune, destiny, it has to be in your stars" sort of thing. It is very common believe among Koreans that to succeed in anything, you need a lot of "woon". And Yuna has always spoken as though while she will do everything she needs to, it's has to be a situation of "if it's meant to be it will happen". So I don't think she is in anyway going in there thinking she is the one to beat, because she knows you cannot tempt fate.
    Last edited by aurora100; 01-30-2010 at 10:47 PM.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by yunasashafan View Post
    This makes me sad because I think her perceived status as the overwhelming favorite and her hard-earned early successes may have set her up for an anti-climactic olympic experience whether she wins or not. As much as it pains me to say it, all signs point to a repeat of 1998.
    Cheerup Yunasashafan, if Yuna is a thinking person/competitor as I think she is, I don't think she is thinking she is an overwhelming favourite herself, her fans and pundits keep saying that. I'm sure she has been seeing how far all her competitor are pushing their way up close to 200. She has to know and I am sure she does that she is only one of the competitors and that she has to skate her best to stay competitive. I am sure she is working her butt off right now because she knows she can be beaten by Mao, Joanne, Rachel and Miki, just to name a few on any given day can win if they all skate clean.
    Last edited by aurora100; 01-30-2010 at 10:48 PM.

  5. #260
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    I do think that Mao has more technical content, and, if clean, can beat Yuna. The only way Yuna can beat a clean Mao is by accumulating a lot of GOEs on her jumps, which is possible since she has more complcated entrances than Mao.
    I don't know if I see it that way. In 2008, Mao definetly had more technical content than Yu-na. But now I think that's arguable. I mean Mao has no 3lutz, no 3salchow, and no 3/3s. Yes, Yu-na doesn't have a 3loop and no 3 axel, but she does have 2 3lutzs, a 3/3, and a double axel/3toe. And Yu-na has more complicated choregraphy and transitions. Mao took out all of her transitions. I think given this, Yu-na has a good chance of beating a clean Mao. Although I doubt both together will be clean, because that's never happened. In 2008 though I don't think Yu-na would have beaten a clean Mao.

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I don't know if I see it that way. In 2008, Mao definetly had more technical content than Yu-na. But now I think that's arguable. I mean Mao has no 3lutz, no 3salchow, and no 3/3s. Yes, Yu-na doesn't have a 3loop and no 3 axel, but she does have 2 3lutzs, a 3/3, and a double axel/3toe. And Yu-na has more complicated choregraphy and transitions. Mao took out all of her transitions. I think given this, Yu-na has a good chance of beating a clean Mao. Although I doubt both together will be clean, because that's never happened. In 2008 though I don't think Yu-na would have beaten a clean Mao.
    Well just basing on the technical content Mao scored a point higher in 4CC than Yu-na, with a couple minor mistakes in the Free over Yu-na's TEB skate, however Yu-na completely missed her Flip there. So assuming the two skate cleanly with no underotations in Vancouver I think the technical mark between the two will be pretty close and will come down to PCS at the end of the day.

    But Mao needs to add another jump in her FS (2A or a 3Sal) since she`s only attempting 6 triple jumps, and a 2A. Yuna has 6 triples and 3 2A, with hard entrances so Yu-na is allowed to miss a jump and still be technically on par with Mao cause she is not taking advantage of all her jump passes.

  7. #262
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    But Mao needs to add another jump in her FS (2A or a 3Sal) since she`s only attempting 6 triple jumps, and a 2A.
    Mao can't attempt another jump at this point without adding a 3/3, double axel/3toe, or some kind of sequence. And well Mao only got level 2 footwork but Yu-na missed a 3flip. But I was saying right now I don't think with her current layout Mao can claim technical superiority. I mean while Miss Mao has those two amazing triple axels, shes also missing a lot of things the others have. It would be close if both were clean though but I actually think if both are clean it would come down to the strength of the programs this time.
    Last edited by bekalc; 01-30-2010 at 11:26 PM.

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I don't know if I see it that way. In 2008, Mao definetly had more technical content than Yu-na. But now I think that's arguable. I mean Mao has no 3lutz, no 3salchow, and no 3/3s. Yes, Yu-na doesn't have a 3loop and no 3 axel, but she does have 2 3lutzs, a 3/3, and a double axel/3toe. And Yu-na has more complicated choregraphy and transitions. Mao took out all of her transitions. I think given this, Yu-na has a good chance of beating a clean Mao. Although I doubt both together will be clean, because that's never happened. In 2008 though I don't think Yu-na would have beaten a clean Mao.
    Quote Originally Posted by mylastduchess View Post
    Well just basing on the technical content Mao scored a point higher in 4CC than Yu-na, with a couple minor mistakes in the Free over Yu-na's TEB skate, however Yu-na completely missed her Flip there. So assuming the two skate cleanly with no underotations in Vancouver I think the technical mark between the two will be pretty close and will come down to PCS at the end of the day.
    By adding the base values for Mao's jumps at 4cc and adding 0.8 difference for a 2T instead of 2T< and 1.3 for the triple loop that was supposed to be in combo with her first 3F, Mao's base technical score was approximately 2.5 points higher than Yuna's base score at TEB+5.5 for the missed triple flip. Now Mao had only a Lv2 step but Yuna missed a few levels on her spins at TEB, so I assumed that those two effects cancel out. Yuna can definitely make up for the 2.5 given the difficulty of her transitions and entry into her jumps. That is why I think, if clean, both are equal on paper. I agree that it will be difficult for both to be clean, so it will come down to who skates cleaner.

    Quote Originally Posted by mylastduchess View Post
    But Mao needs to add another jump in her FS (2A or a 3Sal) since she`s only attempting 6 triple jumps, and a 2A. Yuna has 6 triples and 3 2A, with hard entrances so Yu-na is allowed to miss a jump and still be technically on par with Mao cause she is not taking advantage of all her jump passes.
    Mao utilizes all her jumping passes, so the only way she can add a triple is by doing a triple-triple or 2A-triple or substituting the 2A with a triple. I am not sure the latter is allowed. I don't think a triple-triple or 2A-triple is in the realm of possibility at this point.

    ETA Ha! bekalc beat me to it! It took me that long to figure out how the multi-quote works
    Last edited by yunasashafan; 01-30-2010 at 11:29 PM.

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    I don't know if I see it this way. I think one of team Kwan's problems was they underestimated Lipinski. Everyone told Michelle that if she was clean she'd win. And her father told her to skate safely which she did. She was according to people who were there slow-slower than she was at Nationals. And really maybe her injury did prevent her from doing the 3toe/3toe but I wonder if even then she would have kept it considering she replaced her 3flip with a 3toe for the short. I guess what I'm saying is I don't think Michelle really went in there fighting.

    In contrast, while Yu-na may have been hearing the unbeatable talk earlier. I think she's gotten more than a few wake up calls. I suspect that GPF was a way bigger wakeup call than Skate America because Ando was one 3/3 or double axel/3toe from beating Yu-na out right. And I think Yu-na talking her 3lip suggests someone who isn't trying to place it safe this year. Orser said she'll be going in there fighting. If Yu-na doesn't win, I really think it will be more of a Salt Lake thing than a Nagano thing but we will see. But with Mao skating better and stuff I don't see Yu-na going in there skating not to lose.
    The similarity I saw with 1998 was in the assumption by the media and some experts that, if clean, Yuna is unbeatable. But yeah you're right, Yuna will come to Vancouver prepared for a fight and she herself said that her competitors should not be judged by their early-season results and that she expects them to be in top shape at the Olys

    Quote Originally Posted by aurora100 View Post
    Cheerup Yunasashafan, if Yuna is a thinking person/competitor as I think she is, I don't think she is thinking she is an overwhelming favourite herself, her fans and pundits keep saying that. I'm sure she has been seeing how far all her competitor are pushing their way up close to 200. She has to know and I am sure she does that she is only one of the competitors and that she has to skate her best to stay competitive. I am sure she is working her butt off right now because she knows she can be beaten by Mao, Joanne, Rachel and Miki, just to name a few on any given day can win if they all skate clean.
    Thanks aurora100 and Agreed! I did not mean to sound like Debbie Downer but Skate America was so heart-breaking for me, seeing her having to deal with a crazy mob of uber fans and the stupid "do you think you are unbeatable?" and "are you going to set a new record everytime?" questions.

    Go Yuna! (and Mao and everyone else )
    Last edited by yunasashafan; 01-30-2010 at 11:44 PM.

  10. #265
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    The similarity I saw with 1998 was in the assumption by the media and some experts that, if clean, Yuna is unbeatable.
    The thing is I kind of see your point. Because Yu-na's program I think is a bit dull. Rochette really has a rousing program... But Yu-na will likely if clean have more than a bit of a lead over Rochette after the short, and has higher base values, and more transitions. Maybe this could be the case with Mao, but I really think Mao's program's choregraphy and transitions could hurt Mao. We will really have to see. The one thing about Yu-na's program is its full of all kinds of transitions that really should help her clean up GOE points if she's clean.

    Edited to add that watching Yu-na's TEB long again, I don't think that program is so dull anymore. The music has grown on me but most important the transitions in and out of the jumps really are amazing.
    Last edited by bekalc; 01-31-2010 at 12:35 AM.

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by yunasashafan View Post
    Thanks aurora100 and Agreed! I did not mean to sound like Debbie Downer but Skate America was so heart-breaking for me, seeing her having to deal with a crazy mob of uber fans and the stupid "do you think you are unbeatable?" and "are you going to set a new record everytime?" questions.

    Go Yuna! (and Mao and everyone else )
    Yah I was at Skate America with my mom. Loved her SP and I really thought her long would be a breeze. I ran into Yuna and her entrouge (including her mom and Brian Orser) at a Sushi Restaurant right before her short. They all looked relaxed, smiling. Then the next day for some reason I ran smack into Brian Orser at a parking lot right before the long. There was a over flow of traffic and they made us park quite a way down the hill so much so that they had to shuttle us back. Anyway, Brian Orser was a wreck. I won't tell you why I say that but we were a couple of feet away from each other from where I parked. I talked to him, just thanked him for all the work he was doing with Yuna (I don't know him by the way and I am not an FS insider). But I get lucky, ran into him at the airport, coming back to Canada, Yuna's mother walking down the street and sat at the same table with Yuna at a reception for Brian Orser's Hall of Fame induction by coincidence).

    Anyway, I couldn't figure out why he looked so nervous before the long program. I don't know if something happened in between those two days or what but we all know how she bombed the long. I don't know anything more. Maybe it was because of the bus-ful of Koreans coming from all over to see Yuna that was filling up the Rink on that Saturday. Or Yuna seemed to suggest she was really feeling the pressure of TEB or worried about her flip as Orser said at the K & C.

    All this to say, if anyone knows this, Brian Orser knows, that absolutely nothing is a given on an Olympic Ice. A half a turn could mean (and it did for Brian in 88) a difference between a gold and silver. And I am sure they are preparing for all possibilities and most of all the mental games. I would not be surprised if Yuna's team is up-ping their elements, adding more things in. Not necessarily jumps but in all between stuff. With Akkiko getting levels 4s at 4CC in spins and steps. Yuna cannot afford not to.
    Last edited by aurora100; 01-31-2010 at 01:07 AM.

  12. #267
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Then for some reason I ran smack into Brian Orser at a parking lot right before long. There was a over flow of traffic and they made us park quite a way down the hill so much so that they had to shuttle us back.
    I remember reading on Yu-na's forum that Yu-na changed her boot right after Skate America.... I wonder if that played an issue in her horrible long because she looked like she was messing with that boot right before she skated....Who knows. I wonder too with her having trouble with her 3flip in practices if he was wondering about his decision to let her work on the flip edge the year of the Olympics...

    Who knows. I think the main thing for Yu-na is for her to come up with a back up plan if something happens with her 3lutz/3toe. And/or consider going back to the 3flip/3toe...She was right to omit it with her bad landing on the 3lutz at GPF, but she needs a back up if she has to do that again.
    Last edited by bekalc; 01-31-2010 at 01:10 AM.

  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    watching Yu-na's TEB long again, I don't think that program is so dull anymore. The music has grown on me but most important the transitions in and out of the jumps really are amazing.
    I agree. When I saw her first long on TV at TEB I didn't get it at all. I didn't see much in the program and could not hear the "waves" of the music. Now it's so clear. I do wonder if the Olympic audience (who's not watching skating regularly) would have the same reaction I did the first time I saw it. Especially when it's compared to all other heavy duty Olympic figure skating music being used by all other skaters. More the reason her skating as to shine and rise above.
    Last edited by aurora100; 01-31-2010 at 01:16 AM.

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by aurora100 View Post
    we were a couple of feet away from each other from where I parked. I talked to him, just thanked him for all the work he was doing with Yuna (I don't know him by the way and I am not an FS insider). But I get lucky, ran into him at the airport, coming back to Canada, Yuna's mother walking down the street and sat at the same table with Yuna at a reception for Brian Orser's Hall of Fame induction by coincidence).
    Lucky you Actually I ran into Brian at the arena just walking up the stairs on the first day of practice. I was so star-struck though and couldn't muster a word :o It was like the teenage years all over again except I am hardly a teenager anymore

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by christinaskater View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAXn1QaQSTk

    Akiko's HQ FS!!! She's so adorable

    She even gives a wink in the end! Charismatic skater!!!!!!!!
    She was even more alive at the FCC Gala which aired on BOLD. I thought it was interesting to see Mao and Akiko back to back doing Spanish music. Mao skated it almost like both of her programs this year, even though it's a completely different style of music. She didn't have that "snap" and "tension" that goes with this type of music. Akiko had that in loads. I don't think Mao's expression is at its fullest it should be at 19 in an Olympic year.

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