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Thread: In praise of Rachael and other "athletes."

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    Thumbs up In praise of Rachael and other "athletes."

    I like Rachael. I think her victory was fair and that she's a great skater. Nobody jumps as consistently as she does, her short program is very cute and her speed and artistry is improved greatly over last year. She even beat Yu Na in a long program this year. Who else has done that?

    Not everybody is a ballerina. I think we should give a shout out to all the girls whose jumping is/was better than their artistry, including past winners like Miki Ando, Irina Slutskaya, Sarah Hughes, Tara Lipinski, Elaine Zayak,Midori Ito and of course the queen of this type of skater, Tough Tonya. If I had to see nothing but dainty little things like Mirai and Sasha, I would be bored stiff. Line and extension and all that is beautiful, but there's something exciting about seeing someone land all those jumps and actually get high off the ground--especially if they are skating to dinosaur music. :chorus:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    I like Rachael. I think her victory was fair and that she's a great skater. Nobody jumps as consistently as she does, her short program is very cute and her speed and artistry is improved greatly over last year. She even beat Yu Na in a long program this year. Who else has done that?

    Not everybody is a ballerina. I think we should give a shout out to all the girls whose jumping is/was better than their artistry, including past winners like Miki Ando, Irina Slutskaya, Sarah Hughes, Tara Lipinski, Elaine Zayak,Midori Ito and of course the queen of this type of skater, Tough Tonya. If I had to see nothing but dainty little things like Mirai and Sasha, I would be bored stiff. Line and extension and all that is beautiful, but there's something exciting about seeing someone land all those jumps and actually get high off the ground--especially if they are skating to dinosaur music. :chorus:
    Mirai is dainty and graceful AND fast and can jump too. She is athletic and artistic and that is why she is amazing. Ashley too.

    I like Rachael but I think her LP at SA was better than the one she did at nationals, her SP is fun though and I think she really shines in that program.

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    I also like a varity of skaters. It can be boring to see only ballerinas but Sasha is certainly my favorite. Rachael is an excellent skater, she reminds me a little of Dorothy Hamil great spunk and fun to watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    Not everybody is a ballerina. I think we should give a shout out to all the girls whose jumping is/was better than their artistry, including past winners like Miki Ando, Irina Slutskaya, Sarah Hughes, Tara Lipinski, Elaine Zayak,Midori Ito and of course the queen of this type of skater, Tough Tonya.


    Yes, I'll admit it, I'm a bit bitter about 2002 (and I do admit, she did have a faaaabulous skate) because I grew up as an MK fan. However, Sarah flutz and URed alot ...

    Anyway, I think you're right about the appreciating part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    She even beat Yu Na in a long program this year. Who else has done that?
    Aunt Joyce once wrote in his blog, "I am devastated that we're going to have to hear about Rachael Flatt beating her in the long program forever. She still won by 13 points."

    Rachel performed a decent LP, and I was happy for her, but it was Yu-Na who beat herself on that night. Yu-Na had almost the worst performance of her senior career in her LP because of her bad condition and the enormous pressure due to her own world record in her SP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by french quarter View Post
    ... because of her bad condition and the enormous pressure due to her own world record in her SP.
    I think you should add "enormous pressure from her home country," as well. =/

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    Quote Originally Posted by french quarter View Post
    Aunt Joyce once wrote in his blog, "I am devastated that we're going to have to hear about Rachael Flatt beating her in the long program forever. She still won by 13 points."

    Rachel performed a decent LP, and I was happy for her, but it was Yu-Na who beat herself on that night. Yu-Na had almost the worst performance of her senior career in her LP because of her bad condition and the enormous pressure due to her own world record in her SP.
    The weakest argument I have ever heard and really laughable. Yuna had the worst skate of her career and still beat Rachael.

    If anything this only proves beyond any doubt that Rachael is not comparable to Yuna. But to be fair few are and I won't hold it against Rachael.

    Yuna was not her best at the GPF and still beat Miki. I think this shows that only Yuna can beat herself. The other skaters - with the exception of Mao - are just not in her league.

    As to Mirai - she appears to have all of the tools to become a top skater. She is fast, jumps high and is an extraordinary spinner.
    I see Mirai as clearly the most athletic of the USA skaters.
    Last edited by janetfan; 01-25-2010 at 07:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    The weakest argument I have ever heard and really laughable.
    I don't think it (Rachael out-pointing Yuna in the LP at Skate America) is an "argument" for anything, just a fact. It is something that happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    The weakest argument I have ever heard and really laughable. Yuna had the worst skate of her career and still beat Rachael.

    If anything this only proves beyond any doubt that Rachael is not comparable to Yuna. But to be fair few are and I won't hold it against Rachael.

    Yuna was not her best at the GPF and still beat Miki. I think this shows that only Yuna can beat herself. The other skaters - with the exception of Mao - are just not in her league.

    As to Mirai - she appears to have all of the tools to become a top skater. She is fast, jumps high and is an extraordinary spinner.
    I see Mirai as clearly the most athletic of the USA skaters.
    I agree, Mirai is very athletic. You can tell from her speed and jumps and the way her body is built. She does have pretty spirals and is bendy like Caroline, Alissa, and Sasha, but she is different from those skaters because she has so many other qualities.

    I don't think even Mao is in Yuna's league at this point. I mean, Mao with three ratified 3a in her programs could maybe beat Yuna, but the fact is that the chances of Mao landing three clean 3a are slim, and if she can beat Yuna just because she can do one really difficult jump, I think that goes to show that Yuna is a better skater, and Mao just has a technical edge over her because of that one jump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrissy51 View Post
    I also like a varity of skaters. It can be boring to see only ballerinas but Sasha is certainly my favorite. Rachael is an excellent skater, she reminds me a little of Dorothy Hamil great spunk and fun to watch.
    This is an excellent analogy. Dorothy was not thought of as a graceful, artistic skater when she was competing. She a powerful and athletic one still skating in the shadow of Peggy Fleming and Janet Lynn. Her contemporaries were either more delicate and graceful (Diane DeLeeuw) of more athletically explosive (Christine Errath). They were also more inconsistent. That's why Dorothy finish second to each of them at the previous two worlds before 1976. Her strength was her consistency and balance.

    She herself has said in numerous interviews that she did not think she compared to Peggy or Janet at the time. But in the process of winning, people embraced her for what she was and eagerly accepted her differences. She redefined ladies skating for her time and made a whole other class of female skaters seem like viable champions. That is nothing but a good thing. That's why I was so pleased to hear that Dorothy was serving as Rachel's mentor. They are a perfect fit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcoates View Post
    This is an excellent analogy. Dorothy was not thought of as a graceful, artistic skater when she was competing. She a powerful and athletic one still skating in the shadow of Peggy Fleming and Janet Lynn. Her contemporaries were either more delicate and graceful (Diane DeLeeuw) of more athletically explosive (Christine Errath). They were also more inconsistent. That's why Dorothy finish second to each of them at the previous two worlds before 1976. Her strength was her consistency and balance.

    She herself has said in numerous interviews that she did not think she compared to Peggy or Janet at the time. But in the process of winning, people embraced her for what she was and eagerly accepted her differences. She redefined ladies skating for her time and made a whole other class of female skaters seem like viable champions. That is nothing but a good thing. That's why I was so pleased to hear that Dorothy was serving as Rachel's mentor. They are a perfect fit.
    ***** (five stars )

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poodlepal View Post
    someone land all those jumps and actually get high off the ground--especially if they are skating to dinosaur music. :chorus:
    But Flatt doesn't get "high off the ground" nor does she skate with alot of speed. I also would not group Tara with the 'athletes'-- she never skated to 'dinosaur' music and also had alot of charisma/sass/charm on the ice. Tara, if anything, was quite dainty on the ice for all her 3-3s. (see: her Anastasia, Little Women, Rainbow programs among others). Flatt is quite expressive-- but that doesn't translate to charisma or excitement on the ice. What exactly about Rachael's skating shows 'spunk'? I do see shades of it in her Sing Sing Sing but none in here freeskate. She expressively skates to 'elegant' music. Don't really see why people keep calling her an 'athlete'-- consistency doesn't necessarily mean you are athletic.
    Last edited by cornell08; 01-25-2010 at 02:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cornell08 View Post
    Don't really see why people keep calling her an 'athlete'-- consistency doesn't necessarily mean you are athletic.
    Ok, we get it. Flatt is a non-athlete fatty with chubby cheeks who should be sitting at home eating ice cream instead of putting out ugly spin positions and ugly spirals.

    When was the last time a US champion did a 7 triples program with 7 jumping passes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cornell08 View Post
    But Flatt doesn't get "high off the ground" nor does she skate with alot of speed. I also would not group Tara with the 'athletes'-- she never skated to 'dinosaur' music and also had alot of charisma/sass/charm on the ice. Tara, if anything, was quite dainty on the ice for all her 3-3s. (see: her Anastasia, Little Women, Rainbow programs among others). Flatt is quite expressive-- but that doesn't translate to charisma or excitement on the ice. She expressively skates to 'elegant' music. Don't really see why people keep calling her an 'athlete'-- consistency doesn't necessarily mean you are athletic.
    Okay, have you tried do a triple-triple combo? Or spin with your foot behind your head? Or complete a 4-minute long program?

    It takes a good athlete to do all of those. And top skaters and coaches have praised how athletic she is. Even Frank Carroll, who clearly has disagreed with the judging, did not hesitate to downplay how much of an athlete she is.

    ETA: That the last two paragraphs should be discussed via PM.
    Last edited by Mrs. P; 01-25-2010 at 02:35 PM.

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    I'm not trashing Rachael so do NOT accuse me of that. My points are valid. Sorry if it offends you, but your favorite skaters are going to be analyzed and critiqued as is the point of this forum.

    Instead of getting mad, you might actutally show examples and facts that disprove my argument.

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