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Thread: New angle on Domnina&Shabalin's OD kerfuffle?

  1. #16
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodhiyel View Post
    IIRC, Oxade21 has recently informed us that Russian boards carry the information that the Russian federation has announced that they will not be giving political support to D&S...
    This is the part that I would like to understand better.

    Does this mean that Domnina and Shabalin are no longer medal contenders in Vancouver because Piseev has decided not to lobby the judges, make deals with other federations, etc., on their behalf? Is the smart money now going down on a podium of of Khoklova and Novitske (gold), Virtue and Moir (home team silver) and Davis and White? Can't Cinquanta do anything for Faella and Scalli?

  2. #17
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I believe it is a sacred tribal dance and to turn it into a comedy,is in the worst taste. Linichuck should be ashamed and Piseev too, making fun of another ethnic people. I am sure they will win the Olys anyway by arranging the proper judges with the ISU. I can't prove that but I will expect it.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodhiyel View Post
    I also believe that skaters tend to trust their coaches and choreographers to inform them if anything about their programmes are not compatible with ISU guidelines.
    While I think this is certainly true of some skaters, it really bugs the heck out of me. How can you not take a more direct role in preparing for the defining competition of your life? After all, it's your reputation on the line. Casual fans could care less who the coach or choreographer is and won't take the time to remember.

    Elite level figure skaters are professional athletes. They should be held to the same high standard that other athletes of their calliber are when it comes to being prepared for competition. Every sport demands preparartion in different ways. But in the case of skating, especially if the athletes are adults, total control should not be handed over to the coach or choreographer. At best it should be more collaborative. Just as a skater is responsible for taking ownership over what they put into their bodies to avoid performance enhancement, they should also take greater ownership of their program construction. After all, the coach or choreographer can't skate the program for them and they will likely have a long list of clients after the skaters in question move on or retire.

    The result of her decision might be called into question, but I admire Kwan's decision leading up to SLC to take greater control over her skating. She realized she was an adult and wanted to make more decsions for herself, win or lose. While D/S have stated that they had input into crafting this OD, I am still inclined to believe that Linichuk was the final decision maker based on her press release because she is the one offering clarification and not the skaters.

    While I still find the OD itself to be totally tastless and off-base, I actually feel somewhat sorry for D/S because they are just digging themselves a deeper hole every time their team tries to address this. It's pretty clear they did not see this coming. Now it's not only overshadowing them, but their training mates (B/A and F/S) with uncomfortable questions as well as the whole dance event, which could be incredibly entertaining and competitive. As someone said earlier, this really is a hot mess.

  4. #19
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    Linichuk NEVER backpedaled! She confirmed that it is Australian Aboriginal dance. It's just her interpretation of it.
    That dance does not have religious theme! It portrays two arguing pre-hestoric aboriginal couple in comical way. At least that's what they attempted to do.
    There was no intent to offend. There was just ignorance on Linichuk's part. She did not do research about sensitivity for specific indigenous population.
    GET OVER IT, ALREADY!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxade21 View Post
    Linichuk NEVER backpedaled! She confirmed that it is Australian Aboriginal dance. It's just her interpretation of it.
    That dance does not have religious theme! It portrays two arguing pre-hestoric aboriginal couple in comical way. At least that's what they attempted to do.
    There was no intent to offend. There was just ignorance on Linichuk's part. She did not do research about sensitivity for specific indigenous population.
    GET OVER IT, ALREADY!
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/sp...s/22rings.html

    Natalia Linichuk, their Russian coach who works with the pair in Aston, Pa., said the highly unusual program, set largely to voices and chants instead of a traditional soundtrack, was not directly based on Australian aboriginal dance or culture but on aboriginal culture in general.

    “Aboriginal, it translates from Latin language, it’s from the beginning,” Linichuk said. “We try to represent a picture of this time when aboriginal people start being in the world. It’s no customs, no country, nothing.”

    Linichuk said the dance depicted a meeting between two people who seek out a hunter and make a fire for cooking meat. She said she was sorry if there had been a misunderstanding but happy that the dance was drawing attention and evoking reactions.
    I think this should clear some things up for you.

  6. #21
    Go marry the quad if you love it so much DesertRoad's Avatar
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    Ya know, at this rate, if D/S doesn't win Olympic gold, they'll blame it on an Aborigine conspiracy rather than their own crummy skating and awful choreography.

  7. #22
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    I am not too interested in how they'll be judged and scored. I am just interested in how gracefully they address the matter. Will they get defensive and try to silence another party? Will they use this as an opportunity to open up?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingbc View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/sp...s/22rings.html



    I think this should clear some things up for you.
    LOL, how investigative of you to take the quote out of the cotext. Secondly she was miquoted by NYT. In the actual interview in Russian she goes in much deeper deatil of her idea behind that dance.
    Good god.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    I am not too interested in how they'll be judged and scored. I am just interested in how gracefully they address the matter. Will they get defensive and try to silence another party? Will they use this as an opportunity to open up?
    And how they are going to silence the party? Shoot them
    They already informed that they will be meeting with indigineous groups in Canada and will make the necessary revisions and changes to customing and presentation based on the feedback. Case closed.
    Last edited by Tonichelle; 01-30-2010 at 12:51 AM. Reason: for the umpteenth bazillion time - use the multiquote feature, please.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxade21 View Post
    LOL, how investigative of you to take the quote out of the cotext. Secondly she was miquoted by NYT. In the actual interview in Russian she goes in much deeper deatil of her idea behind that dance.
    Good god.
    How on Earth I took, "not directly based on Australian Aboriginal dance or culture", out of context I'll never know. I absolutely did not take it out of context. Perhaps the NYT took her initial quotes out of context but the problem would lie with the journalist, not me. It actually didn't take much investigation at all, since numerous news reports have used the same quotes from her. I'm hoping you actually read Russian because otherwise, you might be having the same problem understanding that I apparently have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingbc View Post
    How on Earth I took, "not directly based on Australian Aboriginal dance or culture", out of context I'll never know. I absolutely did not take it out of context. Perhaps the NYT took her initial quotes out of context but the problem would lie with the journalist, not me. It actually didn't take much investigation at all, since numerous news reports have used the same quotes from her. I'm hoping you actually read Russian because otherwise, you might be having the same problem understanding that I apparently have.
    Gee, you highlighted specific part of her interview but failed to see what followed that passage. She also says DIRECTLY and NYT did not fully quoted her not citing the passage where she actually explains what DIRECTLY means. Ohh, god.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxade21 View Post
    Gee, you highlighted specific part of her interview but failed to see what followed that passage. She also says DIRECTLY and NYT did not fully quoted her not citing the passage where she actually explains what DIRECTLY means. Ohh, god.
    Please enlighten me then. Where did I fail to see that Linichuk confirmed that it is supposed to be an Australian Aboriginal dance? I would prefer quotes and links please.

  12. #27
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Boy! I care how they're marked; it would be a travesty if they won gold, possibly even if they medalled. But you know, I think they've always been very aware that the team might not be physically up to the standard of their competitors this year, and this program was an attempt to distract, as I said previously. I don't think they expected the aboriginal reaction , though.

    In an odd way this can't be too bad from the Russian federation's POV.
    If their federation is not supporting D/S politically, whether they've actually said that , or people are reading between the lines...I think people should be watching what's going on with Kokhlova & Novitski. If D/S should be marked down on technical content, or for any other reason, Linichuk still has two teams who are in the hunt < B/A and F/S ( though didn't Camerlengo choreograph the Italians FS? )...A medal for either of these teams would be good for Linichuk ,but it wouldn't help the Russian federation, looking ahead to world's and the awarding of competitor spots for 2011. They may be very worried about Maxim's health , having to get through Oly's and World's.

    K/N's Firebird seems to be mostly bendy highlights and her costume is the most naked I've seen in years and years , I'll be very surprised if it doesn't provoke another furor at the Olympics...more distraction , another black eye for ice dance.

  13. #28
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Apparently it is a comic take-off of a dance unknown to the choreographer. Is that correct? How did she select the music?

    As a fan, how will I know if the rhythm of the music is in line with the Australian aborigians? Will I think it is like a Hollywood version of the dance?

  14. #29
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Apparently it is a comic take-off of a dance unknown to the choreographer. Is that correct? How did she select the music?
    Here is what the skaters said about the music selection process in an interview with Tatiana Flade for Golden Skate.

    http://www.goldenskate.com/articles/2009/010210.shtml

    We've searched for a long time," said Domnina of their original dance. "We were looking at different choices. We wanted to do something new and unusual and Natalia Vladimirovna (Linichuk) suggested this music to us.

    "At first we declined," said Domnina. "This music was difficult to understand when we heard it for the first time, and I think it is also difficult for the spectators and others."

    Nevertheless, the team decided this would be something new and different and they went for it. "I don't remember what I thought when I heard the music for the first time," said Shabalin. "I think this music has found us, not we found the music. Of course, this was a risk, but we went for it because we were hoping to be different from the other couples."

    The former European Champions did research on the internet and watched videos of Aboriginal dances. "Actually we put this dance together rather easily although it is something unusual for us," Domnina pointed out. "We didn't have any major problems with creating and doing these moves. We've watched video clips in the internet of these dances and it is really like this - complete with the leaves around the knees."
    (Domnina) went on to reveal her little secret that her little dog Topi - a Yorkshire Terrier - had input in selecting the music. "I just had bought the little dog and I went to Natalia Vladimirovna's house to listen to some music. So we were looking at all kinds of music. There was so much that my head was swollen. My dog was running around, and Natalia said, 'Let's be serious now. I'm suggesting this music and that music'. When she switched on the music of our free dance, my dog is sitting there and turning her ears."

    "We laughed," continued Domnina, "but the dog had reacted to this music. When we switched on the music for the original dance, my dog started to race around the room like crazy and we understood that maybe this music is what we need. It was really like this, I'm not lying. For some reason the dog reacted to these two pieces of music. She didn't react to any of the others."
    Last edited by Mathman; 01-30-2010 at 03:52 PM.

  15. #30
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    I wonder what other major decisions their little doggie makes for them. <rolling my eyes>

    Someone mentioned that the Kerr's dance wasn't really a folk dance. Unfortunately I haven't had the pleasure of watching them yet this year -- what are they doing? And what do you consider "not folk" about it? Thanks.

    As for The Dance of The Ewoks and Wookies......Whoooohooo!!! Now THAT's original!! I'd pay good money to watch that one.

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