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Thread: New angle on Domnina&Shabalin's OD kerfuffle?

  1. #31
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Okay, I wasn't gonna go there, I really wasn't, but now I'm wondering what else she blames on the dog......

  2. #32
    Vancouver 2010, 247.23, Bronze
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    Quote Originally Posted by OHgal View Post
    Someone mentioned that the Kerr's dance wasn't really a folk dance. Unfortunately I haven't had the pleasure of watching them yet this year -- what are they doing? And what do you consider "not folk" about it? Thanks.
    Here's what they are doing
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLik1xClfXg

  3. #33
    The burr up Speedy's Butt! visaliakid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingbc View Post
    Please enlighten me then. Where did I fail to see that Linichuk confirmed that it is supposed to be an Australian Aboriginal dance? I would prefer quotes and links please.
    I wrote my views on this subject and provided proof of Linichuk's stating the OD is based upon an Australian Aboriginal dance, when she first talked about it on the Dom/Shab officail website. Her denial to Russian media came later.

    http://www.blazingblades.com/720678479/blazing-blades-commentary/

  4. #34
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    There is no dance that doesn't have its origins in the people of a region. Spain probably has more variety of folk dancing than any other country. The United States Brazil and Cuba probably have the most modern folk dancing developed by its immigrants and many of them have become ballroom dances just as the waltz did.

    The Kerr's, imo, were folk dancing in the self asserted style of the Keltic immigrants in western US. Unfortunately the international judges have never been impressed with anything Americana. But its a fun dance to watch anyway.

  5. #35
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    That statement was Domnina & Shabalin's, rather than Linichuk's, I think? Is Linichuk claiming that she is so bad a coach that she did not make clear to her students what the vision of the dance was, i.e. that it was generic 60,000 years ago aboriginal rather than modern Australian aboriginal? That is how this argument seems to be shaping up to me.

    Joe, I believe that claims about the Kerr's dance stem from a confusion about folk and country. They are not the same. Johnny Cash is always regarded as a country singer, so their dance is country, but not folk. Country is one of the two allowed types this year, so I think Kerrs are OK. Plus their movements seem reasonably defensible as country to me, and they hired a choreographer knowledgeable of US country dancing. Their dance has line dance and two step moves in it, IMO. The setup and close of the dance are storytelling and not dancing, so the dance is theatrical, but that is not forbidden.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 01-31-2010 at 11:29 AM.

  6. #36
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I believe that claims about the Kerr's dance stem from a confusion about folk and country. They are not the same. Johnny Cash is always regarded as a country singer, so their dance is country, but not folk. Country is one of the two allowed types this year, so I think Kerrs are OK. Plus their movements seem reasonably defensible as country to me, and they hired a choreographer knowledgeable of US country dancing. Their dance has line dance and two step moves in it, IMO. The setup and close of the dance are storytelling and not dancing, so the dance is theatrical, but that is not forbidden.
    I gotta say, I have some experience with country bars (the gritty kind) and watching cowboys and cowgirls dance and it doesn't look so authentic to me, but as long as the style of music is allowed, that's probably for the best. International judges wouldn't understand authetntic American style in dances like that if it spit chewing tobacco juice in their eyes and stomped on their rockers. IIRC a couple of years ago B/A had to fake up their American dance for international judges.

    I also still think the subtext of the ISU guidelines is: Do something colorful and tv friendly! And the Kerrs' dance is that, I can imagine most of the women and a few of the men in the audience would love to get in that ending pose with John.

  7. #37
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    yeah I much prefer SamBates' country dance to that of the Kerrs... the Kerrs is a mess... stupid stereotypes abound and I don't get country out of it at all (other than the costumes and Johnny Cash)

  8. #38
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I don't think it's perfect, but it's legal, is where I was going. yeah it doesn't exactly look like the Broken Spoke in Austin (which is a Texas honky tonk I've been to), but as Mafke says, you wouldn't exactly want it to look like it all that much since the patrons have had a few Lone Star beers as the night progreses. One of the cutest things about the Broken Spoke is their method of roof repair. When it leaked, they put a PVC drainpipe under the hole, knocked a hole at the bottom of the wall, and piped the rain outside No lie.

  9. #39
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    News

    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...9&postcount=50

    According to this translation of a statement made by Russian federation president Piseev, they will meet with the First Nations people to explain to them why the Aborigines should not be offended, and in fact should feel honored for the attention. However, Shabalin may change his face paint, because it might look better.

    Snarkiness mine. If anyone would like to translate the whole thing, please do!

    He does make a valid point that some of the Kalinkas done are not too complimentary to Russian village people. But some done by Russians aren't either. (the word 'rube' occurs to mind)

  10. #40
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    [url]...to explain to them why the Aborigines should not be offended, and in fact should feel honored for the attention...
    This is like the dispute over the use of Native American mascots for sports teams in the United States.

    Here is the famous Cleveland Indians (baseball) logo, honoring the aboriginal people of the American continent.

    http://danwismar.com/uploads/wahoo3.jpg
    Last edited by Mathman; 01-31-2010 at 06:38 PM.

  11. #41
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    In fact, it is exactly like the mascot arguments.

  12. #42
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Doris - I agree with what you say that there is a difference between bluegrass and modern country dancing but both are regional and both, unfotunately. are open to parody, and that's what skating does. The many over-the-top Ukrainian dances are often done in parody. Country vs. Folk. I'm not sure, and does it matter that the folk dances and country dances intertwine?

    Navarro and Bommentre did an African number straight out of Hollywood influence depicting savages (whoa). Was it folk?
    Last edited by Joesitz; 01-31-2010 at 07:28 PM.

  13. #43
    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    According to this translation of a statement made by Russian federation president Piseev, they will meet with the First Nations people to explain to them why the Aborigines should not be offended, and in fact should feel honored for the attention. However, Shabalin may change his face paint, because it might look better.
    Oh dear. In my experience, telling other people how they should feel is not a very productive form of conflict resolution. I do not foresee a happy end here (unless the comment is by the Russian official and doesn't represent D/S's attitude).

    My suggestion would be for them to not let Linichuk attend the meeting (so that both sides can blame her). Just themselves and the interpreter (so they don't have to struggle to try to express themselves and reinforce the idea that the whole thing is a question of ignorance and not willful malice).

    I have the impression that in person they're personable and likeble (unlike Linichuk) and with the right admixture of repentance and charm they can win over the first nations people. I can't see Linichuk winning anyone over........

    ITA that your typical ice dance Kalinka isn't going to be authentic either ( it's not called Ice Anthropology for a reason). But there are differences between the two cases and I hope (against hope) that they don't try to make that analogy in person.

  14. #44
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...9&postcount=50

    According to this translation of a statement made by Russian federation president Piseev, they will meet with the First Nations people to explain to them why the Aborigines should not be offended, and in fact should feel honored for the attention. However, Shabalin may change his face paint, because it might look better.
    That's arrogant.
    As Mafke says, I do not think it a good way to settle conflicts. Acknowledging and respecting their feelings are so essential. The first thing that they need to do is to listen to their point of view, instead of insisting their own view. Then they can tell them politely that it was not on purpose on their part to offend their feelings (without sounding making excuses or shifting blame). But not the other way around.
    Last edited by Bennett; 02-01-2010 at 07:29 AM.

  15. #45
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Navarro and Bommentre did an African number straight out of Hollywood influence depicting savages (whoa). Was it folk?
    they, at least, worked with someone who understood that culture and who helped them choreograph a program that would not offend the people they were portraying. completely different from this situation.

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