American judge asking to be more strict with Plush and Jouby at Olys | Page 5 | Golden Skate

American judge asking to be more strict with Plush and Jouby at Olys

Sk8n Mama

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
or how there are other top skaters with not much transitions (like Oda) who are not drawn to such scrutiny so shortly before the games

Well, I think what you're missing is that Inman is responding specifically to Plushenko's comments which addressed only himself and Joubert in name, and specifically Transitions. Not to mention, as has been brought up several times in this thread, Transitions is a mark that should be far less subjective than several of the other PCS scores. Musical Interpretation is subjective; whether a skater does a whole half-rink of crosscuts before he/she enters a jump or not, is not subjective.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
. But none of this seems to be "taught" so shortly before games..

Do you think it should be taught after the Games? Why is it ever too late to make sure the judges are properly interpreting the rules?

I would hope there are several meetings in Vancouver with all of the skating judges - as a final review and to see if there can be some consistency.

Or is it better as Jeremy noted that he can't get the best pcs unless he is doing a quad. What does a quad have to do with things like IN, CH and TR?

Jenny Kirk brought this up back at NHK and called the judging a joke at that event. Jeremy fans agreed with her and of course Joubert fans disagreed.

CoP is not close to getting some of this stuff right which is what Plushy was comlaining about.
 
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seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Well, I think what you're missing is that Inman is responding specifically to Plushenko's comments which addressed only himself and Joubert in name, and specifically Transitions.
should judges listen to interviews now and what skaters say to make their point? If we give everyone the benefit of the doubt, then give it to Plush also about what he said or meant, cause from all the press conference articles, just one picked this comment. Shouldn't he search a little more of the sources??? In any case shouldn't judges do their seminars or job regardless of what a skater says or believes?
If this really happened I m just against it , cause it happened a week before Olympics talking about skaters who are competing there. Judges can be reminded to do their job all year long, not in the aftermath of Euros or before Olympics. Put a memo in their fridge earlier on in the season.
I think it is too much drama this article and i doubt all this is true, I think judge and skaters were a victim of yellow equipe article, and we will never know what happened. I put it in my pre Olympic fever collection.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
The question of transitions in the PC scores have already been dealt with on the Individual elements in the GoEs of the Tech Score. Just where do they belong?

Many men totally forget the music tempo when they circle around the ice with crossovers to execute a big jump. It's much easier to execute tough jumps with simple crossovers before a jump than to worry about a score with complex moves. Has anyone ever seen negative scores for Transitions? But you will see negative scores for badly executed jumps. No? It's a sport of points, and a mishap of a quad can get deductions whereas the absence of transitions will hardly be noticed.

If all what said about Inman is true, then he as judge wants some sort of musical transition into all elements. (what a concept. :sheesh:) Then the alternative is to disregard transitions and do the long paused entry into big jumps.

I would add, dump the music and let them just have the jumps scored
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Actually, in my opinion, there is a more fundamental question about "Transitions" than just, "how many did you do?" To me, a "transitional" turn or step just so you can say you did one does not deserve any special praise (sort of like catching your foot just so you can say, look, I caught my foot). When such embellishments do not add anything to the choreography or interpretation, then eh? so what?

If Plushenko's point is that we don't care whether the skater twitches his butt back and forth while setting up for a quad, I completely agree. Michelle Kwan's post-2002 programs were criticized for being without irrelevant ornamentation, but I liked them. She was a clean, mean skatin' machine! :yes:
 
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jcoates

Medalist
Joined
Mar 3, 2006
Saw this during the morning. Brennan can be a pain at times, she is right on here.

I also agree that Joubert is far more at risk of lost points from accurate judging than Plushenko b/c he is far less consistent. As for getting rid of PCS, you might as well kill the sport altogether since it is at least partly an artistic endeavor.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Plush must be the search of the google these days. His name is popping under every stone. Funny...


He was talking about transitions + jumps and since it was about his marks were Joub got higher, it is in sp, so i guess it was about the 3 jumps in sp, i dont know if he means the entry transitions or the exit of the jump ones.
But if he thought he doesnt need any, he wouldnt answer what i post in previous page.
To be realistic though, i m not sure what he has added from euros in vancouver time. He seemed to know what he was missing and changed it but if he actually does it, I will be pleasantly surprised.
 
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janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Here is another article about using Plushy in ISU training videos.
An ISU official says Plushy was edited out and replaced because of his comeback. The Russian federation was consulted but Cinquanta made it clear he did not want a training tape critical of Plushy's IN and TR being distributed to judges for training purposes.

I agree and it would be unfair to have any competing skater used this way.

http://wintergames.ap.org/story.aspx?st=id&id=bc68159e255d4b9e9af09f70e50c5788
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
:)Well, thanks to Brennan , even we of the great unwashed now know what the teaching videos are about , and can look back for ourselves to see how or if Plushy's performance exemplified the point they're making.

So can any of the judges who are taking these seminars , knowing that he was originally used.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I think the basic point in all this is clear. If you do a quad, you get 9.8 poiints. If you do a bunch of cool transitions you get 8's in transitions.

If you do a bunch of cool transitions, you cannot ask the judges to give you (besides the 8s that you earned) an extra 9.8 points for the quad you didn't do.

If you do a quad but no transitions -- same thing. You should get the points that you earn.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I think the basic point in all this is clear. If you do a quad, you get 9.8 poiints. If you do a bunch of cool transitions you get 8's in transitions.

If you do a bunch of cool transitions, you cannot ask the judges to give you (besides the 8s that you earned) an extra 9.8 points for the quad you didn't do.

If you do a quad but no transitions -- same thing. You should get the points that you earn.

Here is what Jenny Kirk said about this a few months ago:

http://trueslant.com/jenniferkirk/2009/11/06/star-rules-hurting-skating/

Of course it had the Joubert fans howling like mad dogs but Jenny's analysis seemed accurate.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I think jenny's analysis is spot on. Jeremy is one of the best male skaters out there right now and I think Mirai is too, they both have the complete package, and yet don't score as high as some of the favorites. She left out Lepisto though who I would definitely say falls into the first category of getting star treatment PCS. She's a lovely skater but it seems like even when the jumps are not there she still scores well because of PCS. Hope the scoring is fair at the Olympics!
 
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