Patrick Chan Article "Disses" Plushenko
- Thread starter demarinis5
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Let's clarify a few things here.
1. It was an American judge who was lobbying against Plushenko and Joubert. NOT a Canadian AND not Patrick.
2. Chan 18, Plushenko 27, to a teenager 27 is old, get over it.
3. Patricks opinion is that transitions are more important to a program than quads. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it, current marking seems to agree with him since the last two world champions did it quadless.
4. Nowhere did Patrick say that Joubert and Plushenko we trying to intimidate him with the Quad in practice that was the reporters comment.
5. Patrick clearly states that the competition will be exciting and that whoever is on will win. That's pretty much the general opinion.
Let's all stop overreacting when some figue skating challeged reporter tries to publish something controversial (and not very at that) for their own agrandisement.
1. It was an American judge who was lobbying against Plushenko and Joubert. NOT a Canadian AND not Patrick.
2. Chan 18, Plushenko 27, to a teenager 27 is old, get over it.
3. Patricks opinion is that transitions are more important to a program than quads. It's his opinion and he's entitled to it, current marking seems to agree with him since the last two world champions did it quadless.
4. Nowhere did Patrick say that Joubert and Plushenko we trying to intimidate him with the Quad in practice that was the reporters comment.
5. Patrick clearly states that the competition will be exciting and that whoever is on will win. That's pretty much the general opinion.
Let's all stop overreacting when some figue skating challeged reporter tries to publish something controversial (and not very at that) for their own agrandisement.
sk8rdad, FYI Chan turned 19 in December. He is far more an adult than a teenager. It's because he still talks like a punk kid that people think he's younger than he is.
Chan may have transitions, but he doesn't have much in the way of jumps, his 3A continues to be inconsistent and he often doubles at least one jump in his FS. Chan's jumps are relatively small: he tends to jump up, rotate, and come down in the same spot----no ice coverage on his jumps. OTOH, Plushenko not only jumps high in the air, but he covers a huge expanse of ice between takeoff and landing. Plushenko's jumps are powerful, and by comparison, Chan's are puny.
Chan can boast away about his transitions, but what comes between them is often not awe-inspiring. If he was really smart, he'd keep his mouth shut and train hard on that elusive 3A.
A big mouth doesn't win Olympic medals. Great skating does.
Chan may have transitions, but he doesn't have much in the way of jumps, his 3A continues to be inconsistent and he often doubles at least one jump in his FS. Chan's jumps are relatively small: he tends to jump up, rotate, and come down in the same spot----no ice coverage on his jumps. OTOH, Plushenko not only jumps high in the air, but he covers a huge expanse of ice between takeoff and landing. Plushenko's jumps are powerful, and by comparison, Chan's are puny.
Chan can boast away about his transitions, but what comes between them is often not awe-inspiring. If he was really smart, he'd keep his mouth shut and train hard on that elusive 3A.
A big mouth doesn't win Olympic medals. Great skating does.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
Why can't his coaches keep him AWAY from the press. Chan is as bas as Johnny with the press. I think he meant anything mean by saying "he is old" quite the opposite, i think he meant, he is my peer, my elder, I have no place telling him what to do.
What was more arrogant was the talk of how "skaters like him" are better to watch and alll that, how transitions make a program etc. I pretty much agree, but Chan shoudl just let his skating speak for itslelf. Speaking of transitions, I feel that there are not so many in Phantom compared with his previous programs.
What was more arrogant was the talk of how "skaters like him" are better to watch and alll that, how transitions make a program etc. I pretty much agree, but Chan shoudl just let his skating speak for itslelf. Speaking of transitions, I feel that there are not so many in Phantom compared with his previous programs.
To my knowledge, Plushenko has never said anything arrogant or dismissive about Chan or any of the other skaters. Chan, OTOH, has criticized top skaters many times in interviews; he seems to make a point of doing so. Chan has had many of his former fans turn against him because of his lack of sportsmanship.
Any examples of jerking from Plushenko?
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Other than his rivalry with Yags I can't think of any underhanded comments either.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
No please give the links, we know how it works with quotes out of context.
Jerk?? Yes please send me an interview of Plush that speaks for his contenders like this, or like Sale (sale in french means dirty, cant get over it) . This comments get personal. They should both learn from Brezina how to behave.
In all his recent interviews Plush has chan in his list of gold contenders . Does he believe it?? Maybe not. He says what it is to be said though!
He opened his damn mouth now after all the trash he has been listening for ..lets say..a year at least... said he has no transitions himself , dragged Joubert with him (that i wish he didnt), and it did the media tour of world in 2 days!
By the way check joubert 's interviews after Euros. You know I m not his fan but the man has learnt his lesson from past, the journalists provoke him and he is more than clever to avoid all, his answers are just what it should be.
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2006
:disapp: Oh please .I don't follow everything that these skaters say month in month out , but it's obvious, in the overwhelming number of cases, they're responding to pointed questions by reporters. It's entirely possible that when Chan said " boring" , he meant it would be boring to him as a skater to skate without transitions...Even if he meant it was boring for him to watch, that's OK.
To reference Bull Durham, he hasn't learned his cliches yet. (And I do hope he spends some time on this over the summer, so he can stop putting his foot in his mouth and people can stop taking everything he says in the worst possible context.)
I don't believe he goes into these interviews intending to bad mouth anybody,but to assert his right to be where he is. I have heard him say , numerous times on TV , that all the competitors are champions and he's excited to be competing with them all..Of course he speaks of himself as being their equal, of being potentially able to best them on any given day..If he doesn't believe that , he might as well stay home.
He's continually asked to contrast what he does with what some skaters who came up under the 6.0 system do. He's continually asked for his opinion on what , say, Joubert said recently , or how would he stack up against Plushenko if he came back..and on and on.. I don't think he's been asked much about Abbott, or Takahashi...but that wouldn't have a hope of providing such a controversial answer, would it ?
Protect yourself Patrick , learn your cliches.
To reference Bull Durham, he hasn't learned his cliches yet. (And I do hope he spends some time on this over the summer, so he can stop putting his foot in his mouth and people can stop taking everything he says in the worst possible context.)
I don't believe he goes into these interviews intending to bad mouth anybody,but to assert his right to be where he is. I have heard him say , numerous times on TV , that all the competitors are champions and he's excited to be competing with them all..Of course he speaks of himself as being their equal, of being potentially able to best them on any given day..If he doesn't believe that , he might as well stay home.
He's continually asked to contrast what he does with what some skaters who came up under the 6.0 system do. He's continually asked for his opinion on what , say, Joubert said recently , or how would he stack up against Plushenko if he came back..and on and on.. I don't think he's been asked much about Abbott, or Takahashi...but that wouldn't have a hope of providing such a controversial answer, would it ?
Protect yourself Patrick , learn your cliches.
What Patrick presents is one of the schools of thought. I think that he makes the case.
I read similar remarks posted on Jeff Buttle's HP (not his words, but the web organizers'), I did not get any offensive impression. The commentary was like thanks to the new system awarding steps and transitions better, he is credited for his strengths. This is a valid point.
It is true that Chan's base value is pretty high despite the lack of quad and he tends to get high levels and good GOE and PCS. Perhaps he could have said these without the recourse to other athletes. The nobody complains.
Say, Joannie recently said that, compared to her rivals, she had all types of triples, without specifically saying that Mao, Yuna, or Miki leave out jumps that they are not very good at. But she does indirectly get at it. Yet, nobody was outraged.
Patrick would be better off by being a little vague and less specific.
I read similar remarks posted on Jeff Buttle's HP (not his words, but the web organizers'), I did not get any offensive impression. The commentary was like thanks to the new system awarding steps and transitions better, he is credited for his strengths. This is a valid point.
It is true that Chan's base value is pretty high despite the lack of quad and he tends to get high levels and good GOE and PCS. Perhaps he could have said these without the recourse to other athletes. The nobody complains.
Say, Joannie recently said that, compared to her rivals, she had all types of triples, without specifically saying that Mao, Yuna, or Miki leave out jumps that they are not very good at. But she does indirectly get at it. Yet, nobody was outraged.
Patrick would be better off by being a little vague and less specific.
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- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
I really don't see what the big deal is here about his comments. Patrick is young compared to Plushenko. Maybe it's a bit "cheeky" to refer to Plushenko as old, but hey in the skating world, Plushenko is old!!! I am sure Patrick means no malice towards Plushenko.
The long awaited quotes have arrived! Nah, to be honest, they are more lol than angry-making.
http://www.rg.ru/2009/12/28/plyuschenko.html
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http://www.rg.ru/2009/12/25/jrebii.html
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http://www.championat.ru/other/_skating/article-42085.html
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http://www.kp.ru/daily/24383.5/563134/
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http://www.nevod.ru/local/zvezda/page.php/zvezda/2009-10-13/1
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^^^
http://59.ru/newsline/241437.html
http://www.rg.ru/2009/12/28/plyuschenko.html
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http://www.rg.ru/2009/12/25/jrebii.html
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http://www.championat.ru/other/_skating/article-42085.html
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http://www.kp.ru/daily/24383.5/563134/
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http://www.nevod.ru/local/zvezda/page.php/zvezda/2009-10-13/1
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^^^
http://59.ru/newsline/241437.html
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- Joined
- Feb 18, 2009
I agree. The way he says things may not come off quite as he intended, but he did have a valid point. His Plushenko is old comment really rings true. Plushenko's style of skating is beginning to become antiquated, and while his jumps may be strong enough to keep him competitive, skating is definitely evolving to favor skaters that can do more than big tricks.
Plus, Chan didn't say anything -that- bad. It wasn't blatantly disrespectful or malicious; he simply used Plushenko to make a point.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
1. This isn't the first time that Chan has said something "controversial." After a certain benefit of the doubt (ie, the questions lead those answers), I think we should basically say that yeah: Chan's ego is definitely a little large. But I don't think his statements are entirely out of line or wrong (in other words, if this was an isolated incident, I think people would be more forgiving). That stated, I don't really see the big deal in these statements.
To wit
This no different from Joubert/Plushenko stating that "quads are one of the most important things to men's skating."
Okay, admittedly, this is sketchy. But it's not like what he's saying is wrong: this system is extremely beneficial to a skater like him. He could have phrased it better (like I just did - if he said "COP benefits a skater like myself more than previous systems would" again, no one would bat an eye).
This is far too hard for me to parse. But again, Plushenko does believe the quad will help him, and he'll work on the quad before he'd work on transitions if one was giving him trouble. But I think Chan's misreading these last two seasons of quadless world champions. The quad is a tool. One quad is worth 9.8 (or more). Two is 19.6 (or more). Compare that to Transitions: 10.00 for the short; 20.00 for the long. I'm a little surprised that Chan doesn't recognize that (or am I wrong with the values?)
My big concern is, as always, that Chan's not realizing that he needs to leave it on the ice. Underestimating a talented and driven competitor is the dumbest thing you can do. Whatever I feel about him as a person, as an athlete that attitude bothers me.
To wit
This no different from Joubert/Plushenko stating that "quads are one of the most important things to men's skating."
Okay, admittedly, this is sketchy. But it's not like what he's saying is wrong: this system is extremely beneficial to a skater like him. He could have phrased it better (like I just did - if he said "COP benefits a skater like myself more than previous systems would" again, no one would bat an eye).
This is far too hard for me to parse. But again, Plushenko does believe the quad will help him, and he'll work on the quad before he'd work on transitions if one was giving him trouble. But I think Chan's misreading these last two seasons of quadless world champions. The quad is a tool. One quad is worth 9.8 (or more). Two is 19.6 (or more). Compare that to Transitions: 10.00 for the short; 20.00 for the long. I'm a little surprised that Chan doesn't recognize that (or am I wrong with the values?)
My big concern is, as always, that Chan's not realizing that he needs to leave it on the ice. Underestimating a talented and driven competitor is the dumbest thing you can do. Whatever I feel about him as a person, as an athlete that attitude bothers me.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
perhaps what Chan meant by the old comment was - Plushenko comes from the old skool thinking - 6.0 and early CoP...
what Chan forgets, though, is that Plushenko HAS skated this season outside of Russia and so he is somewhat capable of discerning what it is he needs to win.
what Chan forgets, though, is that Plushenko HAS skated this season outside of Russia and so he is somewhat capable of discerning what it is he needs to win.
That's not actually a true statement. Ando does do all the triples, she does the 3flip in her short program (every competition) And if she does the 3flip every short program that means she's perfectly capable of adding it to her long if she feels she needs it. In fact Ando has announced that she has a layout plan that includes a 3flip if she feels she'll need that to win or medal.
Except that Plushenko can score 19.6 with two quads, but no one ever gets 10.00 in any component category.
Chan can and sometimes does get higher TR (transition) and CH (choreography) scores than other skaters. But even if he does, that isn't likely to offset the high TES skaters like Plushenko can generate with their high-value jumps that Chan doesn't have.
Furthermore, other skaters (including Plushenko) get higher SS and IN scores
Here are some recent Chan/Plushenko component scores. TR and CH are bolded:
Total PCS, SS TR PE CH IN
40.20 8.10 7.55 8.15 8.05 8.35 Plushenko, Europeans 2010 SP
83.10 8.50 7.65 8.45 8.40 8.55 Plushenko, Europeans 2010 FS
36.95 7.55 7.15 7.50 7.35 7.40 Chan, Worlds 2009 SP
76.10 7.70 7.45 7.60 7.70 7.60 Chan, Worlds 2010 FS
38.60 7.75 7.45 7.90 7.70 7.80 Chan, 4CC 2009 SP
80.10 7.85 7.80 8.15 8.05 8.20 Chan, 4CC 2009 FS
Chan's highest PCS scores were recorded at 4CC 2009. Even those scores don't give him any edge vs. Plushenko.
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