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Thread: Sad news: Luger dies in crash

  1. #31
    Go marry the quad if you love it so much DesertRoad's Avatar
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    Actually, most of the article is about how dangerous and unusual the course is. No, the article doesn't go into the mindset of the people who designed or commissioned it. But unless you believe those people either don't know what they're doing, and are thus guilty of supreme negligence in dealing with a potentially dangerous sport, then they designed it to be exactly what it is: a course that even elite athletes have trouble acclimating to in a short time.

  2. #32
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Tonichelle ..exactly..and it's no more than any host team has done in the past.

    CTV is doing some coverage right now ..apparently it is now believed the Goergian team will stay. They'll have a press conference, I believe following the opening ceremonies.

  3. #33
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    it's amazing how someone can become an expert in someone's thinking by a short - and not very informative - article.

    what you got out of the article, I couldn't find. It was about the Canadian coach telling everyone to suck it up, they get home court advantage boo-hoo to you... and yes that it's dangerous but that some Canadian sliders are okay with it... and that it is fast and dangerous so that the audience will "have a good show" which seems just as plausable as your conspiracy to kill off athletes, and a lot less sinister in nature. Which is what I'd rather hold on to at this point in time.

  4. #34
    Go marry the quad if you love it so much DesertRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    Tonichelle ..exactly..and it's no more than any host team has done in the past.

    CTV is doing some coverage right now ..apparently it is now believed the Goergian team will stay. They'll have a press conference, I believe following the opening ceremonies.
    Again, it's been on record by Canadian athletes and coaches themselves that no other Olympic host country has created a course this difficult or dangerous. And again, this is the second luge fatality in the Olympics, ever, since 1964. This was not business as usual, nor can it be equivocated away by blithely saying "everybody else does it, too".

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    it's amazing how someone can become an expert in someone's thinking by a short - and not very informative - article.

    what you got out of the article, I couldn't find. It was about the Canadian coach telling everyone to suck it up, they get home court advantage boo-hoo to you... and yes that it's dangerous but that some Canadian sliders are okay with it... and that it is fast and dangerous so that the audience will "have a good show" which seems just as plausable as your conspiracy to kill off athletes, and a lot less sinister in nature. Which is what I'd rather hold on to at this point in time.
    Your conjectures of innocent motivations are fine and good, but the results speak for themselves, in grim silence. And really, you didn't read all the quotes in the article about how dangerous the course is? Let me quote them for you then:

    Ominously nicknamed 50-50, the corner is already being identified as the place where medals in the sliding events could be won and lost and egos -- and flesh -- could take a battering.

    ...

    "I've crashed at 13 three times in training," Canadian slider Ian Cockerline told Reuters on Tuesday"

    ...

    "If you get turn 12 right you can get through 13 nice and smooth and don't feel it, but if you don't it spells trouble."
    Ya know, that's actually just the first three paragraphs. And despite all that, all you got out of it is that other athletes should "suck it up"? How about their surviving families, should they just "suck it up"?
    Last edited by DesertRoad; 02-12-2010 at 07:19 PM.

  5. #35
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    so it's not in your thinking to assume they want to see some world and olympic records broken with really fast times? that's what I was thinking was the cause of them creating the dang thing when the report first broke...

    but then I'm not a believer in the second shooter on the grassy knoll, and I do like the idea that man has actually stepped foot on the moon...

  6. #36
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    What a terrible way to start tha games. I felt just sick when I first heard this. My prayers go out to the poor man's family and teamates.

  7. #37
    Go marry the quad if you love it so much DesertRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    so it's not in your thinking to assume they want to see some world and olympic records broken with really fast times? that's what I was thinking was the cause of them creating the dang thing when the report first broke...

    but then I'm not a believer in the second shooter on the grassy knoll, and I do like the idea that man has actually stepped foot on the moon...
    So you concede that this course is fast and dangerous, that someone actually designed it that way, and that Canadian athletes were given extra time to acclimate to it. And those are all the facts I posit myself. Whether it is negligence or malice, and it can that caused one fatal injuries and many other accidents, I leave to what I hope is a thorough investigation.

    Perhaps we have a different understanding of culpability. If one were to create a potentially fatal setup knowingly or otherwise, then subject someone in one's trust to that situation with fatal results, then one certainly is guilty of negligence, if not worse. That some people in charge created this to gain an unfair advantage for their compatriots certainly makes the whole thing more despicable. But even if they didn't, and Canadian athletes were given no extra time on the track, something went horribly awry here with the people in charge of safeguarding the safety of the athletes.
    Last edited by DesertRoad; 02-12-2010 at 07:29 PM.

  8. #38
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    So you concede that this course is fast and dangerous, that someone actually designed it that way, and that Canadian athletes were given extra time to acclimate to it.
    I 'concede'... no, I'm not giving into your argument. those points were never in question. you are bringing up this idea that Canada is somehow 'out to get' the rest of the teams so as to win medals, which I find incorrect in the article you used to prove your point.

    It's the villifying of a group of engineers/maintainers/whatever that I disagree with.

  9. #39
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    In a ruthless drive to increase Canada's medal count, the organizers deliberately built a course that is considered dangerous and difficult even by elite lugers, and then gave the Canadian athletes far more time and opportunity to practice on the course. And now this has gone beyond unsporting to inhuman. This taints whatever medals the Canadian athletes will win. There has been a lot of corruption and human rights violations with various Olympic games, but this stands out as one of the most disgusting things a host country has perpetrated.
    Wow, how offensive and insulting can one get?

  10. #40
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    Ya know, that's actually just the first three paragraphs. And despite all that, all you got out of it is that other athletes should "suck it up"? How about their surviving families, should they just "suck it up"?
    and yet the opening paragraph is one that the author wrote - not a Canadian official or coach... the only things I read from Canadians were those saying that 'yes teh course is dangerous' 'yes we got more practice time' and yeah, basically suck it up.

    these were comments before the death, and to try and make it so that I sound like I'm for the death of an athlete is absurd.

  11. #41
    Go marry the quad if you love it so much DesertRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    It's the villifying of a group of engineers/maintainers/whatever that I disagree with.
    Why? They could've designed a safer course, they could've included safety netting or padding. They didn't. Someone died, others injured. What am I missing here? If something I'm in charge of screws up, or parts of it could've been made safer, but people got injured or died in it, I would be responsible. Perhaps your sense of responsibility is different, in which case I see no point in arguing with you further on this.

  12. #42
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    So sad. My thoughts go out to his family, his teammates and his country. Glad the Opening Ceremony is being dedicated to him.

  13. #43
    Quad Queen cloudkicker09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    Why? They could've designed a safer course, they could've included safety netting or padding. They didn't. Someone died, others injured. What am I missing here? If something I'm in charge of screws up, or parts of it could've been made safer, but people got injured or died in it, I would be responsible. Perhaps your sense of responsibility is different, in which case I see no point in arguing with you further on this.
    I agree, Someone should be held responsible and I hope his family gets a good lawyer and sues the hell out of the group that built this course. Also I think that the course should be SHUT DOWN. People have gotten hurt and someone has been killed. No one else should go down that course, no medal is worth dying for.

  14. #44
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    NBC television (U.S.) just had a big feature on the accident. They interviewed quite a few people involved in the sport.

    One point that was made by several people was that by making the run super-challenging for the top ten in the World, it was way too dangerous for second tier sliders who also lacked adequate training time on the course.

  15. #45
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    Why? They could've designed a safer course, they could've included safety netting or padding. They didn't. Someone died, others injured. What am I missing here? If something I'm in charge of screws up, or parts of it could've been made safer, but people got injured or died in it, I would be responsible. Perhaps your sense of responsibility is different, in which case I see no point in arguing with you further on this.

    I'm not disagreeing that they are responsible, I just don't see where you come off saying they did it on purpose

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