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Thread: An important lesson for skaters, know the rules.

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    An important lesson for skaters, know the rules.


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    If you are, or your child is, a competitive skater you should have learned one thing from the past few days.

    Make sure the coach knows how to create a program that will score points under IJS. I don't mean just pick the elements that will get the most points, rather pick the highest scoring elements that you can do well and place them in the correct spot in the program.

    It is OK to take risks with high level jumps, but make sure you can land them when it counts. It makes sense to put a lot of the difficult jumps after the halfway mark but make sure you have the endurance to pull them off.

    Don't assume your coach knows what makes a step sequence level 4, or a spin level 4. You may need to learn the IJS yourself.

    I don't think IJS is the best possible system but it is the system in place and if you want to win, you (or your coach) should know it well. Like a football team knows the playbook.

    As I watched the snowboard half pipe competition I was amazed that there were more than a few "new elements" like a double cork screw and a McFilipy Dee or whatever it was called. I thought to myself "could this happen under IJS". I am not sure a skater would get credit for a completely new jump, something that has never been done before. They would get zero points right?

    This system may be restrictive but these are the current rules of the sport and if you are a skater you should know the IJS system, live it, breathe it, and work it, if you want to win. If you are a senior level international skater/coach there is no excuse for not knowing how to skate under the rules of your sport.

    Some hockey players don't like the "icing" rule but they sure know what it is and how it works.
    Last edited by gfskater; 02-20-2010 at 08:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gfskater View Post
    If you are, or your child is, a competitive skater you should have learned one thing from the past few days.

    Make sure the coach knows how to create a program that will score points under IJS. I don't mean just pick the elements that will get the most points, rather pick the highest scoring elements that you can do well and place them in the correct spot in the program.

    It is OK to take risks with high level jumps, but make sure you can land them when it counts. It makes sense to put a lot of the difficult jumps after the halfway mark but make sure you have the endurance to pull them off.

    Don't assume your coach knows what makes a step sequence level 4, or a spin level 4. You may need to learn the IJS yourself.

    I don't think IJS is the best possible system but it is the system in place and if you want to win, you (or your coach) should know it well. Like a football team knows the playbook.

    As I watched the snowboard half pipe competition I was amazed that there were more than a few "new elements" like a double cork screw and a McFilipy Dee or whatever it was called. I thought to myself "could this happen under IJS". I am not sure a skater would get credit for a completely new jump, something that has never been done before. They would get zero points right?

    This system may be restrictive but these are the current rules of the sport and if you are a skater you should know the IJS system, live it, breathe it, and work it, if you want to win. If you are a senior level international skater/coach there is no excuse for not knowing how to skate under the rules of your sport.

    Some hockey players don't like the "icing" rule but they sure know what it is and how it works.
    Amen to that. The rules are the rules... there is a time and place to fight and challenge the system, and it's not at the biggest competition of an amateur skater's career

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    Bona Fide Member museksk8r's Avatar
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    The biggest lesson I learned from the mens' event is that Daisuke Takahashi would be the 2010 Olympic champion if he had landed his opening quad jump in the LP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    The biggest lesson I learned from the mens' event is that Daisuke Takahashi would be the 2010 Olympic champion if he had landed his opening quad jump in the LP.
    Now that would have been an amazing result...

    PS: OT but why are the quotes coming out funny?

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    Bona Fide Member heyang's Avatar
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    Dan Hollander makes the same point about knowing how to strategize the rules...

    http://danhollander.com/olympic-gold...1/#comment-113

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    Quote Originally Posted by heyang View Post
    Dan Hollander makes the same point about knowing how to strategize the rules...

    http://danhollander.com/olympic-gold...1/#comment-113
    I love his conclusion:

    My dad always says, “show me your rules, and I’ll be happy to beat you at your own game.” Evan won by playing by the rules. If you don’t like the rules, don’t play the game and complain that you lost because of them.

    Amen

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    The biggest lesson I learned from the mens' event is that Daisuke Takahashi would be the 2010 Olympic champion if he had landed his opening quad jump in the LP.
    That is a big if and a big gamble. I learned that if you miss you get 1 point with a 1 point deduction = zero points. As I said, make sure you can land it consistently and when the pressure is on. There is no greater source pressure than the Olympic Freeskate for figure skaters. Jeremy Abbot taught us that when he opened with a single axel.

    Takahashi certainly does have superior skills, shame he did not land it.
    Last edited by gfskater; 02-21-2010 at 12:44 AM.

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    Spectator Bennett's Avatar
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    That's very unlikely to have happened though. Considering his practice reports, it was totally against the following rule:
    It is OK to take risks with high level jumps, but make sure you can land them when it counts.
    He was also lucky not to get an UR call for the 3-3 in SP. I believe that he had the potential to have become a deserving Olympic Champion if he had been at his top form, but he got injured and his LP has never been clean this season. I think it really wonderful and fortunate that he won the Bronze and a World Champ next season seems to be more realistic.

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    but i think we need to chenge some rules about the quads.
    i know under the ISJ all-around skaters are loved.

    but landing quads are as difficult as having a lot of transitions.

    so we need to change the rules so that quads are as loved as transitions are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yangjie View Post
    but landing quads are as difficult as having a lot of transitions.

    so we need to change the rules so that quads are as loved as transitions are.
    the problem is, that transitions are not loved. Or they are, but just in theory. Some programs full of transistions never get credit for that. Whereas, if you land a fullly rotated quad, you can be sure that you get your points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yangjie View Post
    but i think we need to chenge some rules about the quads.
    i know under the ISJ all-around skaters are loved.

    but landing quads are as difficult as having a lot of transitions.

    so we need to change the rules so that quads are as loved as transitions are.
    I think it is the other way around!

    On average skaters with great transition get 7-8 points for 4.5 min of transitions.
    A just OK 4T is worh 9.8 points and a good 4T is worth 12.8 points.

    For the 4T-3T Plushy got 14.60 points. He was rewarded for his effort

    Now ther are 11 other possible jumps which is where Evan won. Even did not win because of transition! Both men had the exact same PCS 82.80

    So I would say the while Evgeni was rewarded for his 4T Evan was not rewarded for his good transitions!

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    Spectator Alatariel's Avatar
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    And then there are people who know what the rules are but have higher standards when it comes to what an Olympic champion should do in order to become one. So win or not, they have the spirit of the true champion and are remembered in years to come. One - Dai T.

    Or there are people who are talentless drones that work the system and the rules and actually win and are soon forgotten. One - Evan L.

    There's playing by the rules and there's saying .... the winning by numbers, though I can win and let's do it how it should be done.

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    There are skaters who believe the 180 degree Spiral with ballet-like arms for the Ladies and Quads for the Men are what figure skating is all about. Not so, if one reads the Rules of Competition, and I might add, the History of Figure Skating. Is it a Sport or an Audition?

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    Spectator Alatariel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    There are skaters who believe the 180 degree Spiral with ballet-like arms for the Ladies and Quads for the Men are what figure skating is all about. Not so, if one reads the Rules of Competition, and I might add, the History of Figure Skating. Is it a Sport or an Audition?
    Blah blah blah.

    Dai could have easily won the OGM. Easily. If he had landed that quad he would have been even more pumped and it would have been an easy win. If he skated a clean program without the quad he still would have won easily over the drone. His PCS were the highest too. So be sure he knows the sacrosanct Rules of Competition quite well.

    He did the quad because he feels to be a worthy Champion of the Olympic Games should at least try one. True champion in all ways. Unlike the talentless drone. But it may as well be a culture difference - some people celebrate even losses when they are honourable, some celebrate wins even when they are dishonourable.

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    He did it not because he feels to be a worthy Champion of the Olympic Games should at least try one.It was because he didn't want to waste his effort for training that quad.He trained it,so he did it.

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