# Thread: Top Ladies LP math/element analysis & comparisons to their "Yu-Na beating" LPs

1. Ok, So just judging from the scores that the original poster put up, Mao would win the TES portion with a clean skate....the question is can she do it?

2. Originally Posted by theresa
Ok, So just judging from the scores that the original poster put up, Mao would win the TES portion with a clean skate....the question is can she do it?
Not quite. A lot will depend on GOE, too.

3. Mao did have the highest TES this season at 4CC though, even without a totally clean skate. But of course there's also PCS score.

4. Originally Posted by miki88
Mao did have the highest TES this season at 4CC though, even without a totally clean skate. But of course there's also PCS score.
IMO it comes down to whether Mao (and the others) can hang in there with Yuna's SP. If they come within striking distance - say, within 5 points, then they're in the hunt for gold.

5. Originally Posted by Marrymeyunakim
IMO it comes down to whether Mao (and the others) can hang in there with Yuna's SP. If they come within striking distance - say, within 5 points, then they're in the hunt for gold.
I was right.

6. I so wish combos comprising more than one double jumps were prohibited because the ability to do such combos are not reflective of the skater's ability.

If they were prohibited, Yuna would be forced to replace her 2a-2t-2l combo with a 3l, which would mean that she would potentially garner 59.45 in base points.

Mao would be forced to replace her 3f-2l-2l with a 3f-3l, with a potential base point of 66.2.

Had this been the case, Mao would have had a fighting chance against Yuna, but as things stand, it's the GOE that determines who's going to win.

And GOEs only take into account things that Yuna is good at: speed. It doesn't take into account what Mao is good at: flexibility.

It looks like the whole system's been carefully crafted to make sure Yuna wins no matter what. It simply doesn't matter whether or not Mao makes history by making the first woman to suceed three triple axels in a competition.

7. Originally Posted by hurrah
I so wish combos comprising more than one double jumps were prohibited because the ability to do such combos are not reflective of the skater's ability.

If they were prohibited, Yuna would be forced to replace her 2a-2t-2l combo with a 3l, which would be she would potentially garner 59.45 in base points.

Mao would be forced to replace her 3f-2l-2l with a 3f-3l, with a potential base point of 66.2.

Had this been the case, Mao would have had a fighting chance against Yuna, but as things stand, it's the GOE that determines who's going to win.

And GOEs only take into account things that Yuna is good at: speed. It doesn't take into account what Mao is good at: flexibility.

It looks like the whole system's been carefully crafted to make sure Yuna wins no matter what. It simply doesn't matter whether or not Mao makes history by making the first woman to suceed three triple axels in a competition.
Yes, Yu-Na deserves to be banned from competition because she's making the most out of the current system.

8. No she shouldn't be banned. She just shouldn't be handed a victory on a platter.

9. Originally Posted by hurrah
I so wish combos comprising more than one double jumps were prohibited because the ability to do such combos are not reflective of the skater's ability.

If they were prohibited, Yuna would be forced to replace her 2a-2t-2l combo with a 3l, which would mean that she would potentially garner 59.45 in base points.

Mao would be forced to replace her 3f-2l-2l with a 3f-3l, with a potential base point of 66.2.

Had this been the case, Mao would have had a fighting chance against Yuna, but as things stand, it's the GOE that determines who's going to win.

And GOEs only take into account things that Yuna is good at: speed. It doesn't take into account what Mao is good at: flexibility.

It looks like the whole system's been carefully crafted to make sure Yuna wins no matter what. It simply doesn't matter whether or not Mao makes history by making the first woman to suceed three triple axels in a competition.
Nobody's forcing Mao to do 3F/2L/2L. She can do 3F3L for more points. She chose not to.

How does flexibility impact jumps? I'm totally confused. Speed gives Yuna an edge because it helps her with ice coverage & height. If flexibility can help Mao jump higher and cover more ice, I'm sure it'll get her high GOE too.

That's just ridiculous. The system wasn't designed to prop up Yuna or anyone else. It's there, and everyone has to bring their best game plan to win.

Look, you're acting like people are forcing Mao to do 3A or 3-2-2 combos, etc. But nobody is. Mao can choose to jump 2 3/3 combos to maximize her point potentials. She can also do 2A-3T like Yuna for more points. SHE CHOSE NOT TO. It's not Yuna's fault that Mao chose the jumps she did.

And it certainly isn't the COP's fault.

Nobody's forcing Mao to do 3F/2L/2L. She can do 3F3L for more points. She chose not to.

How does flexibility impact jumps? I'm totally confused. Speed gives Yuna an edge because it helps her with ice coverage & height. If flexibility can help Mao jump higher and cover more ice, I'm sure it'll get her high GOE too.

That's just ridiculous. The system wasn't designed to prop up Yuna or anyone else. It's there, and everyone has to bring their best game plan to win.

Look, you're acting like people are forcing Mao to do 3A or 3-2-2 combos, etc. But nobody is. Mao can choose to jump 2 3/3 combos to maximize her point potentials. She can also do 2A-3T like Yuna for more points. SHE CHOSE NOT TO. It's not Yuna's fault that Mao chose the jumps she did.

And it certainly isn't the COP's fault.
I think you are intentionally misreading my original point. I was saying that Yuna, or any other elite figure skater for that matter, should not be allowed to garner so many points for doing double jumps, particularly as this greatly covers up for deficiencies in their true jumping abilities. Two double consecutive jumps will be approximately equal to a triple jump.

I think this is a CoP fault.

GoE stands for 'Grades of Execution', so currently, when an element is executed well, it gets bonus point. I think many posters consider flexibility to be an important factor in whether or not an element is executed well, particularly for spirals and spins, although, for some strange reason, it does not seem to have an impact on GoEs.

11. Originally Posted by hurrah
I think you are intentionally misreading my original point. I was saying that Yuna, nor any other elite figure skater for that matter, should not be allowed to garner so many points for doing double jumps, particularly as this greatly covers up for deficiencies in their true jumping abilities. Two double consecutive jumps will be approximately equal to a triple jump.
But how does that work w/in COP system?

If you state that 2 double consecutive jumps = one triple, then more may attempt 3-2-2 to make up for their inability to do a true 3/3.

I'd be more concerned if that were to happen because I think that's very abusive.

I think a better thing to do to force elite level skaters to learn all their triples (except 3A for ladies) is to give an extra point or two as a bonus for executing them all successfully in a long program (no UR or wrong edge takeoffs tho; shoddy technique shouldn't be rewarded). It's like a skater getting deduction for a fall, except in reverse. Does that make sense? Since 1 point may be a big deal in a close competition, more skaters will be forced to do it. (or 2 points; but set some # for a special bonus or whatever)

But how does that work w/in COP system?

If you state that 2 double consecutive jumps = one triple, then more may attempt 3-2-2 to make up for their inability to do a true 3/3.

I'd be more concerned if that were to happen because I think that's very abusive.

I think a better thing to do to force elite level skaters to learn all their triples (except 3A for ladies) is to give an extra point or two as a bonus for executing them all successfully in a long program (no UR or wrong edge takeoffs tho; shoddy technique shouldn't be rewarded). It's like a skater getting deduction for a fall, except in reverse. Does that make sense? Since 1 point may be a big deal in a close competition, more skaters will be forced to do it. (or 2 points; but set some # for a special bonus or whatever)
That's why I said in my original statement that Yuna would be forced to do a 3l, Mao would be forced to do a 3f-3l.

13. If they both skate clean, I don't think Mao can do it. That's not enough base value considering Yu-Na will get +GOE on several things and probaby higher PCS. Hoping they both bring it for a great finish to The Games. So worried about Joannie and how she'll deal with being out there for four minutes. That's a lot longer time to hold it together. I don't care how she skates as long as it doesn't leave her dispapointed in her skate on top of everything else. I don't know how she's doing it at all, she's so brave. Looking at the others (ie: Miki), I think their PCS will be too much lower than Yu-Na's to top her. They're fighting for the bronze.

14. Originally Posted by hurrah
That's why I said in my original statement that Yuna would be forced to do a 3l, Mao would be forced to do a 3f-3l.
No. Mao can opt to just do 3F/2L.

It also doesn't address the problem of ladies not performing all their triples. Mao does NOT do 3S in programs because she doesn't like it, the way Yuna doesn't do 3L.

Besides, Yuna will just find some other way to max her points if she can't do 2/2/2 to replace 3L she skips, maybe throw in another 3/3 if that's what it takes.

Besides, Yuna will just find some other way to max her points if she can't do 2/2/2 to replace 3L she skips, maybe throw in another 3/3 if that's what it takes.
I don't think she could do that without violating jumping regulations. If the rule prohibited consecutively jumped doubles, she would be forced to confront her nemesis jump.

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