"Team Plushenko whining again; this time, it's skating order" - Article

[BigJohn]

Diva attitude is hardly a credible reason, we have quite a few more divas than just Plushenko here, and he's not even the worst.

I agree on his TR scores in Euros, I would have scored him down some 2 to 3 points more. On the other hand, neither of us have a time machine, so we'll have to see what he actually does first for his Olys skate.

Lack of charisma is nonsense because it is your subjective opinion, has nothing to do with this conversation except to show your overall personal bias.

I have no idea what you mean by boosted marks for figure skating credibility? I am guessing this again has the TR scores in mind but he is not the only skater to be overscored and that is not so much a Plushenko issue but a judging issue.

Antiquated views of skating is another nonsense - there is not one view that should be the rule for everyone. People have different styles and that's it. There were good and bad things that happened in skating in the past four years and again, we will see if he adjusts his programs at all based on what he saw at the Euros.

So anything related to Plushenko specifically that HE can influence or just general issues of skating judging and you personal agenda?

1- Well so far, he's the biggest diva at these games, so that's a minus in my book.

2- Are you suggesting that Plushenko has any kind of charisma?

3- I do believe that a former champ clearly a step behind on every elements of skating saved for jumping has no business being crowned OGM, especially based on boosted by reputation unfair judging.

4- Plushenko and Joubert represent an antiquated view of skating, putting all emphasis on jumps.

Not my agenda, just my views on Plushenko's return, and his whining attitude about skating order.

[Alatariel]

1- Well so far, he's the biggest diva at these games, so that's a minus in my book.

2- Are you suggesting that Plushenko has any kind of charisma?

3- I do believe that a former champ clearly a step behind on every elements of skating saved for jumping has no business being crowned OGM, especially based on boosted by reputation unfair judging.

4- Plushenko and Joubert represent an antiquated view of skating, putting all emphasis on jumps.

Not my agenda, just my views on Plushenko's return, and his whining attitude about skating order.

How can he be the biggest diva of the games when he is yet to utter a single sentence? He's been seen only in practices and hasn't spoken to journalists.

The charisma bit is subjective and how that can be considered a negative for his return, even if it were true, is simply beyond me.

Obviously I don't agree with the third point, apart from transitions. We have no idea who will be the OGM, we haven't even seen the SPs!

Actually, Joubert has worked hard to change that, it's pretty obvious. Second, again, antiquated according to whom? You? That makes it a personal opinion again.

Last, Plushenko wasn't whining about the skating order. In fact, he has said nothing at all since arriving to V.

Which ever way you turn it all sums up as you yourself having a negative opinion about him and all that, not an objective bad influence he may have on the sport that you can substantiate.

[BigJohn]

How can he be the biggest diva of the games when he is yet to utter a single sentence? He's been seen only in practices and hasn't spoken to journalists.

The charisma bit is subjective and how that can be considered a negative for his return, even if it were true, is simply beyond me.

Obviously I don't agree with the third point, apart from transitions. We have no idea who will be the OGM, we haven't even seen the SPs!

Actually, Joubert has worked hard to change that, it's pretty obvious. Second, again, antiquated according to whom? You? That makes it a personal opinion again.

Last, Plushenko wasn't whining about the skating order. In fact, he has said nothing at all since arriving to V.

Which ever way you turn it all sums up as you yourself having a negative opinion about him and all that, not an objective bad influence he may have on the sport that you can substantiate.

All right, emphasis on only jumps is what COP is all about. So you think Joubert has improved... That is where the discussion crosses the line from "having fun procrastinating talking about skating" to "wasting time with a lunatic."

But it's OK. It's figure skating, it is all subjective.

[Alatariel]

Nobody is forcing you to talk, all your choice - please, do not waste any more of your precious time

[BigJohn]

Nobody is forcing you to talk, all your choice - please, do not waste any more of your precious time

Not precious enough not to waste it watching OGames, but honestly, defending Joubert... you seemed OK until then.

[Alatariel]

Not defending him per se, as I am not a fan of his believe it or not but he has improved. Not spectacularly of course and he is still focused on jumps but an improvement was there IMO.

Plushenko has improved on his spins too, and if you think that now they are not something great will tell you what I thought of them in Torino. Doesn't annul the fact he has improved. I like Plushenko, doesn't mean I'm blind to his faults though I actually am annoyed more about the fact that I think he can do great choreo, he just doesn't want to it seems. Though again, let's wait and see what he does now.

[Mathman]

So Plushenko coming back is a good thing for what reasons again?

So figure skating boards can have 2500-post, 100,000-view threads?

[aurora100]

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...o-in-draw.html

Here is an article by the great Phil Hersh of Chicago Tribune and LA Times about Mishen's whining about Plushy's skating order. Mishen is losing it. He should look at how Shen/Zhao came out first, put down the gauntlet in short and skated last to win the Gold. Can Mishen/Plushy find some Grace of the Chinese?

[seniorita]

thank you Ximena of what you wrote, it was a relief cause I have doubts that my english are that bad, I read an english article but journalists were writing in like..chinese. It is a shame people neither jourmalist actually read before judging. It is the same case as buying a book by its cover I guess. Probably looking at tilte only. I m sort of tired with all these articles. Too much of aggresiveness in a gentle and artistic sport. I dont have such a strong stomach. Waiting to enjoy the competition tonight, this is what I like anyway!

So figure skating boards can have 2500-post, 100,000-view threads?

MM, when you re bored with Maths, you can start teaching psychology(i m in no position to give carrier advice , I know), you can balance and can take a whole negative feeling off with just a line, I really smiled at the end of an ugly thread, it has happened multiple times with your posts!So now i can go happy to plushy thread to make it 2501 thank you!

[jennylovskt]

Read this on Yahoo! while searching for the medal count:

Yahoo! Article by Maggie Hendricks
"Team Plushenko whining again; this time, it's skating order"

Mishin: "The instinct for the judges is the late groups are better skaters."

"If Mishin and Plushenko want proof that the start order means nothing, they should look to Sunday night's pairs short program. The Chinese pair of Xue Shen and Hongbo Zhao were the very first skaters to take to the ice, and they broke the scoring record."....So true

This article means nothing, except to show that North Americans are intimidated by Plushenko's come back and trying to do everything they can to diminish him.

[janetfan]

I love Mishin's joke

Mishin told a joke to express his feeling that the judges' mindset hadn't changed.

``One time the devil came to God and said, `We should organize a figure skating competition between the underground and paradise.'''

``God said, `Listen, you suggest a silly thing because all Olympic champions are with me.'''

``The devil answered, `All the judges are with me.'''

That is the best thing I have read today !

[prettykeys]

Plushenko has improved on his spins too, and if you think that now they are not something great will tell you what I thought of them in Torino. Doesn't annul the fact he has improved. I like Plushenko, doesn't mean I'm blind to his faults though I actually am annoyed more about the fact that I think he can do great choreo, he just doesn't want to it seems. Though again, let's wait and see what he does now.

I feel that exact same way. Still, I'm quite tired of the Plushenko hate.

I do believe starting order/groups still matter for the most part, especially when it comes to PCS and you are relatively unknown. However, for big names like S/Z and Plushenko, I think their reputations null that fact.

[Ptichka]

Actually, statistically it does. I remember Mathman posted soma data about it once.

[colleen o'neill]

Love Mishin's joke.

And the Plushy / choreo thing has always been my main knock on him. I was afraid when he first won that we'd see his expession, choreo etc. firm into an ironclad sameness... ( at the time, sort of in challenge to Yagudin.) So, I feel robbed , because we'll never see anything different from him, and I always felt he was capable of more artistically.

***

But if he pulls off a deserving win , I'll be happy.

From what i've seen of the changes Brian has made at Euros, I feel he has for the first time, seriously tried to address his weaknesses. It might be too little, too late.

[BigJohn]

So figure skating boards can have 2500-post, 100,000-view threads?

It's better for skating boards than for figure skating then.