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Thread: Johnny Weir's SP: Not COP friendly enough?

  1. #16
    Awaiting Boris and Oleg
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    I've been making a lot of animated gifs of skaters lately, and I like to crop down the footage so that only the skater is shown. That has turned out to be particularly tough with Weir. He, more than any other skater, makes full use of his limbs and extensions. Everything is elegantly extended whenever possible, especially the legs. This makes all his moves more difficult and higher in quality. It should be rewarded in several categories of the PCS, according to how the ISU defines them. That they aren't could be a result of Krick's DVD, and/or judges being asinine.
    Yeah, what DR said ! Seriously, that is a great way of describing one of the things I find so mesmerizing about Johnny's skating. And like you said, it isn't just elegant, it adds difficulty and quality.

  2. #17
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    I know the new judging system is supposed to be more objective than subjective, but I can't help but wonder if they are holding his remarks about Inman against him....as in birds of a feather stick together? Just grasping I guess.

  3. #18
    Custom Title Moxie's Avatar
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    Maybe. I dunno.
    I do think Johnny was undermarked. But maybe this will take the pressure off the LP.
    Now he can go and skate without all the expectations, instead of what he did at Nats.
    He just better not go and miss the bus again.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moxie View Post
    Maybe. I dunno.
    I do think Johnny was undermarked. But maybe this will take the pressure off the LP.
    Now he can go and skate without all the expectations, instead of what he did at Nats.
    He just better not go and miss the bus again.
    I agree. Even if he just maintains his current placing, he can still be proud of coming back like he did, IMO. I think he can leave happy and get on with the rest of his life in fashion or coaching or just being fabulous!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by moscow View Post
    What I don't understand is how Evgeny and Evan score higher in pcs when all they do is flail their arms and make funny faces. That is not worthy of olympic medal to me. Sure they can jump but this isn't a jumping competition. Johnny's program was underscored in my opinion. Chan skated worse and yet Johnny is only a point ahead of him? Also I felt that Johnny deserved to be ahead of Lambiel but boy I could watch that man spin all day. -2 was a big harsh for an edge call but if that's the way they see it then that's up to their discretion. I just don't think it's fair to hold Johnny back because he isn't viewed as a contender for a medal which is the only thing I can assume at this point. I think there could have been alot more added to his program to maximize the points but for whatever reason Galina didn't focus on that. Atleast he's skating consistently (knock on wood) and if he does so in the lp, especially if he does the quad which he said he'd do, then I think he might be a real threat for that bronze medal. I highly doubt every single one of the top 6 men will skate cleanly, which would leave the door open for johnny, and probably chan barring that they skate clean. I doubt Chan though, I think the pressure is getting to him, I don't expect to see him place higher than 5th. I really hope Johnny skates a program that he will be proud of and not have any regrets.
    Agree! Especially the flailing arms part. Johnny's skating, posture, carriage, elegance is far superior to most of the men. I could be happy just watching him do crossovers. But for this competition, I am pleased that he had a good skate.
    Last edited by isk82; 02-17-2010 at 10:55 PM.

  6. #21
    Figure Skating Fan Hikaru's Avatar
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    You know, I've never thought of Johnny as a skater that wasn't able to adapt to COP. I remember his programs for the 2004-2005 season (Rondo Capriccioso and Otonal) were very CoP friendly, and that season he was winning everything. Also this years programs were designed by David Wilson, who does great programs for CoP. If indeed his coach changed the choreos, and thus eliminated whatever transitions Wilson had come up with (I'm guessing, I don't know if indeed this is what happened), then they only hurt Johnny. And Petrenko, being a technical controler, could have addressed that, don't you think?

  7. #22
    Go marry the quad if you love it so much DesertRoad's Avatar
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    If you look at Johnny's TES, it's perfectly competitive with the top guys. Where he can improve slightly, although this is by no means fatal, is he could up the levels of his spins so they ALL reach level 4. Where Johnny needs to improve greatly is executing the planned elements. He cannot afford to pop any jumps, which he is given to do. It's against his nature, but he's better off rotating the jumps and splatting on them than popping them. And if he could fix his lip, even better.

    As for his PCS, that's where he's suffering in particular these days, and has lots of room for improvement. An obvious area he can improve is throwing in more transitions. In fact, his SP had more transitions at the beginning of the season, but he stripped it away to improve his consistency. Weir can also try to skate even faster, which helps improve the SS score. As for the rest of the PCS, I think it'd really help him if he had better music and better programs. His current SP and FS have mediocre, even awkward music. The choreography bound to that is never going to be very good. Remember The Swan? That was beautiful music which inspired beautiful choreography which inspired massive PCS. Find better music, and the PCS will improve.
    Last edited by DesertRoad; 02-17-2010 at 11:58 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikaru View Post
    You know, I've never thought of Johnny as a skater that wasn't able to adapt to COP. I remember his programs for the 2004-2005 season (Rondo Capriccioso and Otonal) were very CoP friendly, and that season he was winning everything. Also this years programs were designed by David Wilson, who does great programs for CoP. If indeed his coach changed the choreos, and thus eliminated whatever transitions Wilson had come up with (I'm guessing, I don't know if indeed this is what happened), then they only hurt Johnny. And Petrenko, being a technical controler, could have addressed that, don't you think?
    I get the impression that no one goes against Galina. Some of the choreography that Wilson did for Johnny included butt rolls, lol...I don't know how else to say it and Galina ix-nayed that. I think Galina is too old school BUT I also think she has been able to get Johnny to stay fit and focused. As for Victor...well he is Galina's son-in-law. He's probably scared of her too.

  9. #24
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    I thought Johnny's SP had more fire in Spokane. It really didn't feel like he was skating all out until his footwork section, and even then it wasn't as big and joyus as Nationals.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    I thought Johnny's SP had more fire in Spokane. It really didn't feel like he was skating all out until his footwork section, and even then it wasn't as big and joyus as Nationals.
    I do think he skated a bit more cautiously but I'm sure nerves played some part...I'm sure ALL the guys had nerves last night...obviously some were taken down by them. (Poor Jeremy and Brian :( ...I felt badly for both of them.)

  11. #26
    Custom Title skatemom1122's Avatar
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    The fact of the matter is that Weir lost on technical elements. He lost 2 points for the wrong edge on the flip, and probably would have gained at least 1 point in GOE had he not taken off the wrong edge. This results in a net loss of at least 3 points, and it also cost him a spot in the top 4! Weir has no one to blame but himself. The "e" rule has been in effect for several seasons now. He has had ample time to correct this issue. Miki Ando was another skater with an egregious incorrect take-off edge on her triple flip, but it has since been fixed. He should try a triple loop instead in the short program. The base value is lower, but he wouldn't have all of the negative GOE.

  12. #27
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justafan View Post
    I get the impression that no one goes against Galina. Some of the choreography that Wilson did for Johnny included butt rolls, lol...I don't know how else to say it and Galina ix-nayed that. I think Galina is too old school BUT I also think she has been able to get Johnny to stay fit and focused. As for Victor...well he is Galina's son-in-law. He's probably scared of her too.
    lol.

  13. #28
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    An 83 does not sound off-mark to me. His PB was a 84.60 at the GPF this December, and since he got an edge call on the flip and both the flip and the 3/3 were done very slowly and without his usual flow, i don't find the score off mark. What surprised a lot of people was how far down in the standings he was because of the huge scores some of the other guys were getting. Two judges gave him a 5.50 and a 6.75 for transitions, compared with 6.00 at the lowest for Plushenko (which is rather insane, but lets stay out of that whole drama). His spins and steps got levels 3 and 4, and + GOEs so I don't think he is losing many points there. He skating pretty much his best, and was scored fairly IMO.

  14. #29
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    Johnny is the 3 number of the USA team now. That is the only reason why he has got such low marks for his perfect SP (inspite the wrong edge).

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinymavy15 View Post
    An 83 does not sound off-mark to me. His PB was a 84.60 at the GPF this December, and since he got an edge call on the flip and both the flip and the 3/3 were done very slowly and without his usual flow, i don't find the score off mark. What surprised a lot of people was how far down in the standings he was because of the huge scores some of the other guys were getting. Two judges gave him a 5.50 and a 6.75 for transitions, compared with 6.00 at the lowest for Plushenko (which is rather insane, but lets stay out of that whole drama). His spins and steps got levels 3 and 4, and + GOEs so I don't think he is losing many points there. He skating pretty much his best, and was scored fairly IMO.
    I feel that the some of the other guys may be overscored. Like two seasons ago, the really good scores you could get with triple programs were like 82. They do the same elements but get higher scores.

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