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Thread: Funeral for quads

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchvancouver View Post
    It's just a fact that most of the figure skating spectators these days are women. I attended a GP event last year, believe me, while there's a big line out side the ladies' washroom, the men's washroom was nearly empty. I felt a bit embarrassed to be one of the few male spectators by the rink..
    I remember the good old days when mostly men attended figure skating competitions. Me and the guys from the factory filled up the arena and enjoyed the loud WWE style atmosphere. Jolly good times, but there was so much drunken fights and hooliganism.

  2. #77
    Ya'll just need to ignore it. aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJohn View Post
    I remember the good old days when mostly men attended figure skating competitions. Me and the guys from the factory filled up the arena and enjoyed the loud WWE style atmosphere. Jolly good times, but there was so much drunken fights and hooliganism.
    Sounds like you have some interesting stories. Do tell!

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    Are we returning the Olympics to its Greek roots of excluding women?
    As I understand the argument, it was more about, "how long was the line at the men's latrine?"

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maribelle View Post
    Quads are high risk and the skaters can get almost as many points with combination jumps, or by jumping in the second half of program.
    If they fall on a quad, they get hardly any points at all. I agree that quads should be rewarded with higher scores than they are because not many people can do them and because they are so risky. I admire the few guys last night who did try or land the quads, such as Kozuka, Takahashi and Plushenko. However, one quad combination does not win a gold medal. The new COP system takes into account every single little element and Lysaceck and his coach have been very smart to train in this system and maximize his points.

    In the early 2000s, Timothy Goebel was the quad king, but his programs lacked artistry so that is why he did not win back then, and that is why Evgeny lost out now. Evgeny should have made his comeback 2 years ago so that he could become familiar with how the COP system has changed.

    A similar thing is going on in the ladies program. Mao Asada plans to do triple axels to score higher points to overcome lower scores she receives in other elements. Kim Yu Na has the whole package, and doesn't need to do the triple axel to win. Evan Lysaceck has the whole package under the COP, so he doesn't need the quad to win.

    AND.. finally, I think Evan would have been happy with the silver medal. I don't think he really thought he could beat Plushenko.
    But Evan and Plushenko had the same PCS, so Evan did not win based on his "artistry" (which I think he is lacking too~~). He won because Plushenko's layout wasn't CoP savvy enough and his jumps were shaky. Daisuke is the one who has the whole package not Evan. IMO. I also think what's hurting Mao is that her program is not CoP savvy enough, because is a well-rounded skater.
    Last edited by miki88; 02-19-2010 at 09:20 PM.

  5. #80
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    The quad is something special. Period. While skaters should not be penalized for foregoing it, as not everyone can have it (that's what makes it special to start with), skaters should be rewarded for successfully landing it. The quad has been devalued by CoP. There should be more points given for a successful one, as incentive to try, just as there should be more points given to Mao whenever she nails that 3A since such skaters are pushing the envelope.

    I think we're jumping to conclusions though. The quad is not dead. Like Yamaguchi said in a NYT article, skating goes through cycles. The current crop of men can win without quads, as they learn to milk the system and no top-tier skater can pull it all together in addition to a quad. We're in a period of adjustment (to CoP). At the moment, it's about getting Lv4s and boosting that PCS, but once that's figured out (and scores become more or less even among the top competitors), I have a feeling more men will look for the quad to edge out wins . Or if a single skater had Takhashi's fire + Lambiel's spins + Plushy's jumps + Kozuka's skating skills (now wouldn't that be something to behold), I bet more skaters would flock toward the quad in order to stay competitive. The truth of the matter, though, is that none of the top competitors was the whole package, so Lysacek wins by virtue of his well-rounded, albeit quadless, performance. If Plushy had Lambiel's spins, he would've won hands-down, but the truth is, Plushy doesn't. I love Plushy, but Lysacek won this one fair and quare by the CoP system.

    All we can do is wait for another Battle of the Quads a la 2002 SLC and for skaters like Yagudin, Plushenko (in his prime) and Takahashi+quad to emerge (and I do say the 2nd group last night looked promising). The quad is not dead. There's no need for a funeral It will come back.

    As for the value of the quad.. Well, I think this article puts it best:

    But one casualty in raising the technical precision of the sport [by CoP] is the spontaneity that makes sports exciting. Athletes at this level live on the edge of control and chaos, and it's the collective wow of moments when they butt themselves up against that line that take our breath away and keep bringing us back to watch. "It's important for any sport to continue to raise the bar and move forward," Paul Wylie, a 1992 silver medalist, told me after the men's short programs. "I have to admit, as a performer who did two triple Axels in my program in Albertville, I am surprised that more guys aren't doing the quad."
    http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...#ixzz0g2QydpOz
    Last edited by dlgpffps; 02-19-2010 at 10:07 PM.

  6. #81
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    In fairness to Joubert I'm tired of hearing he's only got quads. The guy has worked hard on his spins, and he's now one of the better spinners in the field.

    But I think the issue is that the quad requires a lot of stamina nobody's been able to do a quad and all the high level stuff at worlds in four years) that says something about the quad's difficulty. Which shouldnt' be pooh poed as nothing. The Quad is very high risk. I'd like to see it worth more.

    However, maybe some should also strategize abuot perhaps doing a little bit less difficulty in footwork/spins and go for more difficulty in the jumps. I.e maybe do an easier level 2 footwork sequence, and then go for a harder one (after you've done the jumps at the end). Maybe do one easier spin (and do two harder ones at the end, after once again the jumps are done. A jumping layout like this would get HUGE base value, something like 17 points higher than something like Evan's, and would likely get high GOE too.

    Quad toe/2toe
    Quad toe
    3loop/3sal sequence do this early because if you miss the sequence you can add it to a 3flip or a 3lutz...
    Second half
    3axel/3toe/2loop
    3axel
    3lutz
    3flip
    double axel

    It is difficult because it may seem like throwing points away to easy up on the spins/footwork, but it may help stamina wise...Just make sure do at least one level four spin at the end of your program, and have the appropriate levels in the short program. And you can answer the Chan's by saying, I CAN do level 3 footwork because I did it in the short, but I'm strategizing to do a little easier footwork so that I can get do some harder jumping passes (lol)
    Last edited by bekalc; 02-19-2010 at 10:07 PM.

  7. #82
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    But 2A-Chan is our future, or not?

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchvancouver View Post
    But 2A-Chan is our future, or not?
    Methinks someone likes bringing up Chan/Chosen One/The One Who Will Invent a Spin Where He Puts His Foot in His Mouth/I've Actually Got Nothing Against Him

    Of course not, silly. 4T-Kozuka shall be the future of the sport!

    Or Lutzy Rippon and/or Czech Buttle will be.
    Last edited by aftertherain; 02-19-2010 at 11:11 PM.

  9. #84
    Matt Savoie~Soul Skater CzarinaAnya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfskater View Post
    Sorry, I did not mean to imply that you did. I was trying to make the point that Evan won because of his jumps. His jumps in total (there were 8) were worth more points even though Evgeni did a quad.
    S'ok.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    Methinks someone likes bringing up Chan/Chosen One/The One Who Will Invent a Spin Where He Puts His Foot in His Mouth/I've Actually Got Nothing Against Him

    Of course not, silly. 4T-Kozuka shall be the future of the sport!

    Or Lutzy Rippon will be.
    Don't forget Czech Buttle! He's a rising star as well

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Don't forget Czech Buttle! He's a rising star as well
    Noted and edited. (:

  12. #87
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    I'm also pulling for Javier and Amodio the French Orphan. All these youngins are so good

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I'm also pulling for Javier and Amodio the French Orphan. All these youngins are so good
    LOL. You know what, just give me a list and I'll put them all on there!

  14. #89
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    The future of figure skating - 2014 podium threats

    Men:
    Chan
    Kozuka
    Rippon
    Brezina (aka Czech Buttle)
    Amodio
    Ten
    Fernandez
    Borodulin (mini Plushenko?)

    Ladiezz:
    Christina Gao (female version of Patrick Chan, the NBC commentators at nats couldn't say enough good things about her, she's that good, money jumps)
    Murakami
    Shelepen
    Ovcharova
    Tuktamysheva (sp?....third tiny Russian girl)
    Nagasu

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    The future of figure skating - 2014 podium threats

    Men:
    Chan
    Kozuka
    Rippon
    Brezina (aka Czech Buttle)
    Amodio
    Ten
    Fernandez
    Borodulin (mini Plushenko?)

    Ladiezz:
    Christina Gao (female version of Patrick Chan, the NBC commentators at nats couldn't say enough good things about her, she's that good, money jumps)
    Murakami
    Shelepen
    Ovcharova
    Tuktamysheva (sp?....third tiny Russian girl)
    Nagasu
    You know what? I think I'll just make a new thread about this ...

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