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Thread: Yahoo sports!: The night they killed figure skating

  1. #16
    Custom Title NatachaHatawa's Avatar
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    I think the issue is a bit more complicated than that. i'll try and analyse it in several points.

    1) The CoP is made for a particular kind of figure skating. Not for complete skaters but for skaters who have good transitions, do lots of things with their arms and have good spins and footwork.

    2) CoP does not reward jumps enough.

    3) This system forces skaters to calculate while on the ice, and they're constantly petrified of making a mistake. This stops them attempting things they have difficulties with. I believe that Evan is a good athlete, and had the old system been in place, Evan would have probably tried to have fixed his quad, but with this system it's pointless.

    5) Skaters get rewarded for skateing clean, without taking risks.

    The CoP was made to suite skaters like Evan, but it has also affected the way skaters skate. I personnaly would have given gold to Plush.
    i'd say the real problem is the system and not Evan - ha was just doing his job. he understood what was required, so congrats to him.
    But I agree with Elvis, there's a problem and it needs to be fixed.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    When Elvis Stoyko says Johnny was undermarked you KNOW the judges screwed him.
    The judges seemed to give Johnny props if you look at the score sheet.

    He got + GOEs on most of his elements, the elements just had lower base values. He got an edge call on the flip and stepped out of a spin half way through so those two got -GOE.

    They gave him +GOE on everything else! How can you say they screwed him????

  3. #18
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    I am not a huge Evan fan myself, love Johnny's form of skating better. That being said, I have to take issue with Elvis and Sasha's comments, typical I think, of former Olympic medalists who didn't get the job of being on top done. Sour grapes. This is figure skating, not quad jumping. All elements are taken into account. And if you prefer Jeffrey (whose a gorgeous skater) to Evan, Evan stayed on his feet, didn't pop any jumps when it counted. If Evan didn't deserve the medal, then maybe Shen and Zhao shouldn't have won over Pang and Tong. She collapsed on a lift. Okay, Plushy landed quad jumps (love Plushy by the way) but jumps are not the only thing scored........42

  4. #19
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    You need to look at the scoring sheets people. The judges gave Evan more negative GOEs than they did Yevgeny. How can that be favoring Evan. Evans program components had a higher base value because the components were more difficult or appeared later in the program for a bonus.

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/ow..._FS_Scores.pdf

    Yes Plushenko did a 4T+3T, but what about the rest of the jumps. Even did five of the hard jumps after the half way mark so he received a bonus. All of Evans spins were level 4, His footwork was superior to Plushenko’s.

    If you recorded it, watch again, make sure you watch their feet. Plushenko moves his arms and body around but watch his feet. There was not a lot of difficult foot-work i.e. combinations of rockers, counters, brackets, turns.... Also, compare the kicks. Evan's is higher than his shoulders and Yevgeny's barely above the waist. These were two different levels of footwork.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by show 42 View Post
    I am not a huge Evan fan myself, love Johnny's form of skating better. That being said, I have to take issue with Elvis and Sasha's comments, typical I think, of former Olympic medalists who didn't get the job of being on top done. Sour grapes. This is figure skating, not quad jumping. All elements are taken into account. And if you prefer Jeffrey (whose a gorgeous skater) to Evan, Evan stayed on his feet, didn't pop any jumps when it counted. If Evan didn't deserve the medal, then maybe Shen and Zhao shouldn't have won over Pang and Tong. She collapsed on a lift. Okay, Plushy landed quad jumps (love Plushy by the way) but jumps are not the only thing scored........42
    Also, the rest of the jumps that Evan did had a higher base value and were in the second half of the program.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by gfskater View Post
    The judges seemed to give Johnny props if you look at the score sheet.

    He got + GOEs on most of his elements, the elements just had lower base values. He got an edge call on the flip and stepped out of a spin half way through so those two got -GOE.

    They gave him +GOE on everything else! How can you say they screwed him????
    The problem is they are not consistent with every skater. If t hey want to give him hard edge calls, then call Plushy's URs. URs are serious- remember Mirai losing the National title because of them? Now suddenly, OBVIOUS URs by Plushenko don't count.



    The biggest problem with this scoring system is the rules are not applied consistently, and there is too much freedom in the PCS marks. Johnny was canned hard on his PCS, and Evan + Lysachek were gifted on it. There were no + points for Johnny having a spectactular skate. It was a great performance. I'm sorry, but there should be some + for that.

    Evan was smart and worked the system. He won fairly under the current judging system.

  7. #22
    Go marry the quad if you love it so much DesertRoad's Avatar
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    The real travesty would've been an Olympic champion who won without level 4 footwork, like Plushenko. If you like jumping so much, go to track and field. This is skating.

    The only good Elvis is Costello.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    The real travesty would've been an Olympic champion who won without level 4 footwork, like Plushenko. If you like jumping so much, go to track and field. This is skating.

    The only good Elvis is Costello.
    Couldn't agree more. Evan deserved that gold medal. Plushy seemed to think that the quad alone was enough for him to win the gold medal. Evan had it ALL last night. Johnny was screwed by the judges, he should've been 4th at the very least.

  9. #24
    Arm Chair Skate Fan show 42's Avatar
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    Or maybe they simply didn't like Plushy's arrogance and sense of entitlement...........42

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by show 42 View Post
    Or maybe they simply didn't like Plushy's arrogance and sense of entitlement...........42
    Or maybe his program was not really that great. I think they gave him more + than they should have. His jumps were sloppy. I am sorry but just because woooweeee he held on to that one, amazing... If he have a good entry and good air position we would not have had such a crash landing on those jumps. I would have given him -GOE and he got + so the judges gave him props.

    After reading the article at the top of this thread I thinks he and his coach are imagining these enemies... He says he thought he won in the article but look closely at his face at the end of the LP. He knew he lost.

    Shame Takahasi fell apart, his skills are amazing! His short was remarkable.
    Last edited by gfskater; 02-19-2010 at 03:10 PM.

  11. #26
    Go marry the quad if you love it so much DesertRoad's Avatar
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    I linked a Canadian acquaintance to the article, and I feel compelled to share his reaction:

    "Maybe Stojko is just bitter that skating got in the way of his years of karate lessons and collecting Asian swords."

    Ha!

  12. #27
    On the Ice sarukou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    The real travesty would've been an Olympic champion who won without level 4 footwork, like Plushenko. If you like jumping so much, go to track and field. This is skating.

    The only good Elvis is Costello.
    You can't be serious? Evan did not receive level 4 footwork all year and the suddenly gets it at the Olympics. Hmmm...

    I thought this was a sport... But it seems the jumping has regressed to a 1988 level. Or even worse - Boitano's jumps were way better than Lysacek's.

    This is the future of skating? Some extremely pre-rotated triple axels, a triple double double combo, and a level 4 footwork full of flare kicks and arm flailing?

    Lysacek is easily the weakest Olympic Champion in 20 years... Thank You C.O.P.

  13. #28
    Go marry the quad if you love it so much DesertRoad's Avatar
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    I must've missed the part where skaters get to skate their Olympic programs months in advance and have all their technical elements adjudicated then. If so, perhaps Plushenko should've gone back to a time where he sucked less and used one of those performances.

  14. #29
    On the Ice sarukou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRoad View Post
    I must've missed the part where skaters get to skate their Olympic programs months in advance and have all their technical elements adjudicated then. If so, perhaps Plushenko should've gone back to a time where he sucked less and used one of those performances.
    And maybe Lysacek should have been a tad less average and taken some risk. Perhaps, just perhaps, an Olympic MENS champion should have more technical difficulty than a Lady. What an absurd thought, no?

  15. #30
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    What a sad, bitter man. Really pathetic. He clearly has no respect for anything in skating other than jumps, despite any of his protests to the contrary. My level of respect for him drops each time he puts pen to paper or opens his mouth. He appears to have a lot of unresolved baggage, still fighting the battle of 1994.

    Seems to me like he is approaching his thinking with the same narrow sledge hammer approach that he used in his skating. Skating is cyclical. Standards evolve over time and preferences come and go. The same is true in football, tennis, basketball or any other sport. The goal is not always to put more points on the board. Sometimes, it's to restore balance or sound fundamentals. For example, tennis went through a nearly 20 year period when serve speeds were ratcheting up exponentially. It seemed the other players were never going to catch up and fans were getting bored. That does not negate any of Pete Sampras' or Boris Becker's titles, it's just that there were other ways to play the game that did not get sufficient attention. Still, they were the standard of their era and the powers that be endorsed that approach by building faster courts and using lighter balls knowing full well that the rallies would be shorter or even non-existent. Eventually though, the baseliners started to adjust and at the same time officials started using different surface technology to encourage more balanced play. If they hadn't, it's arguable that Rafael Nadal would never have been the star that he is, and to a lesser extent Roger Federer (the most balanced player of all time).

    The 70s were mostly about pushing artistic boundaries, while much of the 80's and 90's were about pushing jumping boundaries with less and less attention on anything else. In both periods, whoever lived up to the in vogue ideal tended to win. Now the system in place is attempting to show that there is more than one way to win. There is NOTHING wrong with that. That makes the sport more legitimate in my opinion because it is fair to the widest range of people. For example if Verner had Plushenko's competitive drive, he'd be in the running for every major title, if not the favorite because he would have no real weakness.

    IMO, skating has been totally damaged by this soundbite era that we live in. Too many people can only focus on one thing at a time and seem incapable of stepping outside themselves to look at situations from different perspectives or to judge other people with out bias. The hate displayed for Evan and other skaters throughout this forum in countless other threads is shameful and frankly the type of juvenile behavior you would expect from first grade children. They want a short, narrow explanation and if they don't get their way, they throw a temper tantrum Stojko and Plushenko clearly appear to fall into this camp. Maybe they should start posting here. They'd be welcomed with open arms.

    It's figure skating not figure jumping. While some people may not realize this, this battle for balance in skating has been raging for 60 years with different opinions holding sway. That will always be the case.

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