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- Aug 16, 2003
another take: http://olympics.thestar.com/2010/article/768720--dimanno-it-s-not-figure-skating
not only stojko feels this way apparently....
not only stojko feels this way apparently....
Yahoo sports!: The night they killed figure skating
- Thread starter Phoenix347
- Start date
I think the "pro-manly skating" people want it to be like the floor exercise in men's gymnastics....where it's just a series of jump elements with no choreography. As for Elivis, I always thought he was a great athlete but his skating never inspired or moved me. It was like Tai Kwan Do on ice to me.
I think they are forgetting one factor. A beautifully skated program allows the skater to bring the audience in...that is how it becomes an interactive sport. Without that I think people would fall asleep during the performance.
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The bad thing is not the missing quad. Lysacek has nothing, absolutely nothing!!! else to offer! There's not even one natural move in his skating, everything is completely "worked out" and his programs exactly look like this. An amateur and totally forgettable """Olympic Champion""" - the result (the "first" two) is an absolute disaster and disgrace for Men's figure skating! :scowl:
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- Mar 24, 2008
Plushenko already knew what points he would get from the quad. If he looked upset at the podium, thinking of this quad buz, I don't buy it. If his jumps had been not tilted, he would have been the winner. Or, if his spins and step sequences had been better, he would also been the winner.
My wish is that all the hoopla will continue in order to bring about a change in COP. Similar to what happened at the 2002 Olympics, because of the uproar about Sarah Hughes win, COP went bananas in regards to underrotations & technique.
I hope to see the same change when it comes to difficulty of jumps -- 3/3s should not be scored on the same level as a quad for men or a triple axel for a lady -- in fact each & every jump & combo. & sequence should be put under a microscope and assigned an *appropriate value*. Huge difficulty should receive huge reward, as long as the jump is fully rotated & landed. Falls don't count.
The system is still relatively new & needs tweaking after each Olympics.
Anybody that knows me knows that I love the jumps, always have & always will, and I believe I can safely say so does the audience. I will never forget the audience holding their collective breath when Evgeni went into his 4/3 jumping pass (& it was only him, no one else that fateful night). Their reaction kinda justified something in my mind, made me feel good to see that superior athleticism is acknowledged & appreciated on a visceral level, something you cannot hide, plain to see. YES, I just love this sport!:thumbsup:
Don't get me wrong, I actually think Evgeni was very lucky that fateful night to finish second, and I think he knows deep down inside he was as well. *smile* I swear it was magic how he appeared so off in the air on several of his jumps (ready to fall), but God put his hand upon him & set him down like a cat. If He didn't, Evgeni would have been off the podium. But instead he became that rare thing ~ one & only 3time Olympian behind Gillis Grafstrom ~ he joined the immortals, along with Sonja Henie on the night of February 18th, 2010.
I hope to see the same change when it comes to difficulty of jumps -- 3/3s should not be scored on the same level as a quad for men or a triple axel for a lady -- in fact each & every jump & combo. & sequence should be put under a microscope and assigned an *appropriate value*. Huge difficulty should receive huge reward, as long as the jump is fully rotated & landed. Falls don't count.
The system is still relatively new & needs tweaking after each Olympics.
Anybody that knows me knows that I love the jumps, always have & always will, and I believe I can safely say so does the audience. I will never forget the audience holding their collective breath when Evgeni went into his 4/3 jumping pass (& it was only him, no one else that fateful night). Their reaction kinda justified something in my mind, made me feel good to see that superior athleticism is acknowledged & appreciated on a visceral level, something you cannot hide, plain to see. YES, I just love this sport!:thumbsup:
Don't get me wrong, I actually think Evgeni was very lucky that fateful night to finish second, and I think he knows deep down inside he was as well. *smile* I swear it was magic how he appeared so off in the air on several of his jumps (ready to fall), but God put his hand upon him & set him down like a cat. If He didn't, Evgeni would have been off the podium. But instead he became that rare thing ~ one & only 3time Olympian behind Gillis Grafstrom ~ he joined the immortals, along with Sonja Henie on the night of February 18th, 2010.
The sad thing is, the men who have artistry and quads can't control their nerves long enough to actually win anything. I don't know a lot about Verner, but supposedly he has the whole package. So does Jeremy Abbott and Ryan Bradley. Ryan did two quads and danced a comedy routine, to boot, at the US Nationals. But he fell in the short, and Johnny got his spot.
If quads were counted more, Evan might not have even been at the Olympics, because either her or Johnny would have lost his spot.
All Evgeny had to do was skate to a piece of music that was familiar to most people and wear a matching costume. Even if he flailed away, his performance would be a crowd-pleaser and he would have gotten the two program components score he needed. He could have skated to Carmen dressed like a bullfighter--it wouldn't even have to be original. Plushy thought he would be given his gold on a golden platter, and put little work into it other than landing that quad. He is a better skater than Evan, but his program was lazy and he blew it.
If quads were counted more, Evan might not have even been at the Olympics, because either her or Johnny would have lost his spot.
All Evgeny had to do was skate to a piece of music that was familiar to most people and wear a matching costume. Even if he flailed away, his performance would be a crowd-pleaser and he would have gotten the two program components score he needed. He could have skated to Carmen dressed like a bullfighter--it wouldn't even have to be original. Plushy thought he would be given his gold on a golden platter, and put little work into it other than landing that quad. He is a better skater than Evan, but his program was lazy and he blew it.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
Yeah, Verner, Abbott, Bradley do really all have the complete package: they can jump, they are elegant, and they are crowd pleasers - all of them are pretty inconsistent though.
Out of fairness to Verner, he did get a bad case of the flu (I heard it might of been H1N1) this November which caused him to miss a week or two of training and lose lots of strength, explaining his bad results at SA and the GPF. Then I think after being sick and not doing well it affected his confidence and that's why he messed up again at Europeans and the Olympics, he still could be weak too (looked sad and super pale in KnC in Vancouver). Not like Verner was really consistent before this season, but this season has been particularly rough for him, he just needs to get through worlds (hopefully do better but just get through) and just start fresh next season with new programs and regain his health, confidence, and consistency.
Patrick was sick in the fall with the flu too which caused injury and even he still seems to be a bit off now. It's tough getting sick in the middle of the season I bet.
I really hope Ryan gets to go to Worlds because I know he was planning on retiring after this season
I'll miss him soo much.As for Jeremy, he is probably one of the best if not the best male skater out there now
, just for some reason the pressure makes him struggle. I feel so bad for him, he tries so hard.
Stojko is multiple Olympic medalist and decorated athlete, who are you to challenge his credibility?
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2010
Stojko is one of the few household figure skaters in Canada. Nobody outside the obssessive figure skating forums know who Jeffrey Buttle is. Athletism does matter. Sports should encourage excellence, not mediocrity, which I guess some 'skating moms' have an issue with since their kids just can not jump.
Wow, your post is dead on, and something I hope Evgeni reads because I do know he reads the boards. 'nuff said.
Karate Chops Artistry
Mishin once described Elvis' skating as Karate Chops choreography with quads. lol I think Elvis forgot that. Who on here is suprised that someone with karate chops artistry would think that hip grinding, posing and blowing kisses was good enough for Olympic Gold? I seem to recall that Goebel did more quads than both Yagudin and Plushenko in Salt Lake City, but no one thought he should have won. We all agree Plushenko is special and amazing. Even with his average spins, arm flailing footwork and front loaded program, he could have won with better executed jumps. Maybe he should have been "masculine" and been brave enough to put a jump in the last minute of his program? Man up!
Mishin once described Elvis' skating as Karate Chops choreography with quads. lol I think Elvis forgot that. Who on here is suprised that someone with karate chops artistry would think that hip grinding, posing and blowing kisses was good enough for Olympic Gold? I seem to recall that Goebel did more quads than both Yagudin and Plushenko in Salt Lake City, but no one thought he should have won. We all agree Plushenko is special and amazing. Even with his average spins, arm flailing footwork and front loaded program, he could have won with better executed jumps. Maybe he should have been "masculine" and been brave enough to put a jump in the last minute of his program? Man up!
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
That is if the members of the audience are open to enjoying figure skaters. Too often there are fans who are bent on a particular skater to win rather than see any other competitor who might grab the medal.
But in the theatre, it is the actor, singer, or dancer who draws the audience in, and NOT the actor, singer, or dancer who goes after the audience.
However, we are talking Sports and that is different from theatre.
Well, did you ask that Plushenko? Don't be so sure.
Odd how two people can see the same thing, but in totally different ways.
For example, I've never ever gotten Yagudin, period. I thought he was & is overrated. I don't see artistry, nor dancing, nor stretched out legs, nor anything, though I do give him kudos for great jumps. As God is my witness, he reminded me of a crab with bent over poor posture & bowed legs, especially when he was doing his footwork. In contrast, I would have this ideal of Kurt Browning in my head ~ beautiful straight posture & legs dancing down the ice like Gene Kelley. But it was John Curry whom was the true male ballerina on ice.
None of the male Olympic Champions over the years have ever moved me except Curry & Plushenko. Period.
When I see Evgeni perform "Once Upon A Time In America" or "Carmen" or "The Godfather", I see everything that is great about this sport I love so much. True athleticism mixed with showmanship/art/whatever you want to call it. The complete package, and that's the honest to God's truth.
He has the perfect physique with beautiful posture & stretched out limbs, especially evident in his camel spin. None even come close. And when he is ON with the perfect vehicle to show off all his gifts, there's nothing like it! This is why I was so disappointed with his LP this year (not so much his SP, though it could be a tad better).
It's good & necessary to have an ego when competing, to believe you're the BEST, and he is! But that must be tempered with an understanding of COP & a willingness to conform to it, including a program that will draw the audience in, music that is familiar.
Like I've said since the beginning, this is a humbling & necessary experience for Evgeni to go through. I just don't want it to break his spirit.
You still are the BEST, #1, Numero Uno, et al. But your hubris must be tempered with what I said above.
GOOOOOOO EVGENI!!!!
For example, I've never ever gotten Yagudin, period. I thought he was & is overrated. I don't see artistry, nor dancing, nor stretched out legs, nor anything, though I do give him kudos for great jumps. As God is my witness, he reminded me of a crab with bent over poor posture & bowed legs, especially when he was doing his footwork. In contrast, I would have this ideal of Kurt Browning in my head ~ beautiful straight posture & legs dancing down the ice like Gene Kelley. But it was John Curry whom was the true male ballerina on ice.
None of the male Olympic Champions over the years have ever moved me except Curry & Plushenko. Period.
When I see Evgeni perform "Once Upon A Time In America" or "Carmen" or "The Godfather", I see everything that is great about this sport I love so much. True athleticism mixed with showmanship/art/whatever you want to call it. The complete package, and that's the honest to God's truth.
He has the perfect physique with beautiful posture & stretched out limbs, especially evident in his camel spin. None even come close. And when he is ON with the perfect vehicle to show off all his gifts, there's nothing like it! This is why I was so disappointed with his LP this year (not so much his SP, though it could be a tad better).
It's good & necessary to have an ego when competing, to believe you're the BEST, and he is! But that must be tempered with an understanding of COP & a willingness to conform to it, including a program that will draw the audience in, music that is familiar.
Like I've said since the beginning, this is a humbling & necessary experience for Evgeni to go through. I just don't want it to break his spirit.
You still are the BEST, #1, Numero Uno, et al. But your hubris must be tempered with what I said above.
GOOOOOOO EVGENI!!!!
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Watching Universal Sports Figure Skating Review and Preview. Hosted by Terry Gannon, Kristi Yamaguchi and Pater Carruthers. Here are their collective comments on the 2 men and the circular footwork in particular.
Plushenko - level 3 on cicular footwork. 3.3 base value - got 4.1 points. Slow, skating on one foot in a still upright position. Stepping forward on toes picks practically standing still. Felt more like it was a rest period vs skating.
Evan - clean. Used the sytem. Can do a quad, but did not due to risk - nothing wrong with being a smart risk taker, after all, he would've been out of any medal if he had fallen. Entire body is moving -both body and feet (Plushenko might be moving his upper body, but his feet aren't usually doing anything interesting simultaneously), which is harder since it can throw body off blance. Quicker. 5.1 from the judges.
Every year, features are added. Plushenko front loaded his program and adding a jump or 2 in the back part of the routine might've given him the win. Plushenko's team failed to adjust to the changed system.
Plushenko - level 3 on cicular footwork. 3.3 base value - got 4.1 points. Slow, skating on one foot in a still upright position. Stepping forward on toes picks practically standing still. Felt more like it was a rest period vs skating.
Evan - clean. Used the sytem. Can do a quad, but did not due to risk - nothing wrong with being a smart risk taker, after all, he would've been out of any medal if he had fallen. Entire body is moving -both body and feet (Plushenko might be moving his upper body, but his feet aren't usually doing anything interesting simultaneously), which is harder since it can throw body off blance. Quicker. 5.1 from the judges.
Every year, features are added. Plushenko front loaded his program and adding a jump or 2 in the back part of the routine might've given him the win. Plushenko's team failed to adjust to the changed system.
Plushenko is far behind from the level of immortals like Grafstrom, Henie and also Rodnina, all those had 3 Olympic gold medals, Plushenko has only one plus two silver medals. Besides, all those skaters who won two Olympic gold medals are ahead of Plushenko. Two gold medals are worth more than one plus 2 silver medals, in my opinion.
Anyway, with his gold plus 2 silver medals Plushenko is the best Russian male singles skater of all times, and that is a big achievement.
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- Joined
- Oct 31, 2005
There are a few other 3 time Olympic medalists in figure skating as well. Like the most recent two, Xue Shen and Hongbo Zhao. How soon we forget. There's also Artur Dmitriev, The Brunets, Klimova/Ponomarenko and Beatrix Loughran.
How soon we forget. There's also Artur Dmitriev, The Brunets, Klimova/Ponomarenko and Beatrix Loughran.Yes, I know about all 9 figure skaters that are part of that rare select group (click here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_figure_skating)
That said, Evgeni & Gillis & Sonja are the only ones of that elite group that are singles skaters (Beatrix Loughran doesn't count as her 3 came from both singles & pairs).
They are The Immortals, period.
That said, Evgeni & Gillis & Sonja are the only ones of that elite group that are singles skaters (Beatrix Loughran doesn't count as her 3 came from both singles & pairs).
They are The Immortals, period.
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