Yahoo sports!: The night they killed figure skating | Golden Skate

Yahoo sports!: The night they killed figure skating

Phoenix347

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Here's a rather interesting article from Yahoo sports:

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/vancouver/figure_skating/news?slug=es-thoughts021810&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

In Thursday night’s men’s free skate, Lysacek skated slow and his jumps weren’t close to the technical ability of defending Olympic champion Evgeni Plushenko.

How can you be Olympic champion when you don’t even try the quad? If you’re going to take the quad out, why not take out another triple axel and just have more of the other stuff so the International Skating Union can make it more into an “art” recital.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
The lack of a quad in Lysacek's programs is not even the real issue with me. It's the fact that the American media is trying to put into people's heads that a well-rounded, balanced, musical, choreographically pleasing skater won Olympic gold and I don't believe that is what happened at all. Evan Lysacek is not and never will be a skater like Jeffrey Buttle, a quad-less skater who otherwise is very well-balanced. It's sickening for me to see anyone try and compare the two of them because Buttle is SO MUCH BETTER! Lysacek is NOT an artist on the ice!
 

1795

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
a jump shouldn't determine the placement of a skater, it's the performance that should.
plushenko's long program was ridiculously bland. he did a quad combo, yes, but that lysacek did a combination plus a jump to make up for that.
especially with plushenkos disgusting landings, the medal belonged to evan.

footwork wise -
plushenko did his frivolous, nonsensical, crazy footwork that is difficult to do but totally irrelevant. he even managed to sneak is a few blowing kisses and arrogant moves.
lysacek USED the music, played the program, used his body to go through that sequence thus earning more points technically AND for interpretation.

yeah, taking out the quad isn't progress overall in the sport but....elvis, do the math, go do more ice shows, i dont need your sass. go wallow with your two silver medals.
 

Alatariel

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
The lack of a quad in Lysacek's programs is not even the real issue with me. It's the fact that the American media is trying to put into people's heads that a well-rounded, balanced, musical, choreographically pleasing skater won Olympic gold and I don't believe that is what happened at all. Evan Lysacek is not and never will be a skater like Jeffrey Buttle, a quad-less skater who otherwise is very well-balanced. It's sickening for me to see anyone try and compare the two of them because Buttle is SO MUCH BETTER! Lysacek is NOT an artist on the ice!

Thank you! Precisely my point. All we hear is Lysacek the all round skater being repeated over and over again when he is anything but! Tight jumps, low jumps, an absolutely appalling 3A that would have been scored down a million times by now if he wasn't the US lead guy, no artistry whatsoever as he never follows the music, obviously skating by the numbers, same spins seen a million times before, average footwork and absolutely no balls!

All round skater my ...
 

let`s talk

Match Penalty
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Good point about the scoring system: they control who wins and who loses. Thanks, Elvis.
 

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
in a way he is right--why the women triple/triples even though they ur and wrong edge won over artistry of michelle the men in old days
did quads -not what to stop the men from even doing triple axel and just focusting on doing easy jumps and cleaning up jumps(i have no problem with ) but focus on those and doing more artistry.
why might as well take away the older gold medalist-evan skated slow and methoidcal a little more artistry than evgeny but not much also the calling out by us judge joe iman-and impacted how-guess who won-evan -why us told other judges to specially watch for evgeny did the us judge tell the other judges to specifically watch for evan NO-
what happened in 1998 did they tell the other judges to watch for tara wrong edge, ur and bobbles, no they stated to look out jfor her tirple triple even if she does it wrong, sarah no-but did they jtell you to look out for michelle landings sure--both in 1998 and 2002
does it tel lthat publci that they rigged it can, yes we knew they did but we didn't know howo-now we know and can see how, with the internet and you tube is figure skating going to thrive with rigged scoring, rigged judging, judges calling out.
did evan win because of the skate or because they wante frank to have the gold medal more?
 

grace23

Spectator
Joined
Mar 4, 2006
The lack of a quad in Lysacek's programs is not even the real issue with me. It's the fact that the American media is trying to put into people's heads that a well-rounded, balanced, musical, choreographically pleasing skater won Olympic gold and I don't believe that is what happened at all. Evan Lysacek is not and never will be a skater like Jeffrey Buttle, a quad-less skater who otherwise is very well-balanced. It's sickening for me to see anyone try and compare the two of them because Buttle is SO MUCH BETTER! Lysacek is NOT an artist on the ice!

Can't agree more
 

CoyoteChris

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
I think Elvis saw a different skating comp. than 1795, Scotty, Sandra, Jamie, Dick and I saw. In Scotty's words, GOE GOE GOE. Plushy's jumps were poor and it is a tribute to him he didnt fall on three of those turkeys. P.'s interpretation, performance /exection and skating skills scores were beyond belief. He has no musical interpretation ability. He could have skated that number to "Mary had a little lamb". How did he tie Evan in PC? In Jamie Sale's words, “I don’t buy his skating, his artistry, and I don’t (buy) the marks he receives. His skating is not believable.” Dick Button talks about P's arm flailing between jumps.
Sorry Elvis, but when three gold medalist say P is all hat and no cowboy, I have to listen. I have to think the fix was in. Anyone know who the judges were?
 

sillylionlove

Medalist
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
I think Elvis saw a different skating comp. than 1795, Scotty, Sandra, Jamie, Dick and I saw. In Scotty's words, GOE GOE GOE. Plushy's jumps were poor and it is a tribute to him he didnt fall on three of those turkeys. P.'s interpretation, performance /exection and skating skills scores were beyond belief. He has no musical interpretation ability. He could have skated that number to "Mary had a little lamb". How did he tie Evan in PC? In Jamie Sale's words, “I don’t buy his skating, his artistry, and I don’t (buy) the marks he receives. His skating is not believable.” Dick Button talks about P's arm flailing between jumps.
Sorry Elvis, but when three gold medalist say P is all hat and no cowboy, I have to listen. I have to think the fix was in. Anyone know who the judges were?

I agree. I think that the only reason Plushenko landed some of those jumps was because he really has the strength to do so...the landings were very shaky....which frankly surprised me since he says his programs are all about the jumps. I might be wrong but I believe that I read that Evan actually beat Plushenko on the technical mark!!
 

Fielding

Spectator
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
De-lurking after a long period of hanging around reading to say nice article by Elvis and thanks for posting it.

lysacek USED the music, played the program, used his body to go through that sequence thus earning more points technically AND for interpretation.

I'm afraid "used the music" is the perfect descriptive phrase for what Lysacek did. (Too bad he didn't listen to it.) He worked the system. One admires his determination and will to improve but that's about all there is to be said. Depressing.
 

NatachaHatawa

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
I think the issue is a bit more complicated than that. i'll try and analyse it in several points.

1) The CoP is made for a particular kind of figure skating. Not for complete skaters but for skaters who have good transitions, do lots of things with their arms and have good spins and footwork.

2) CoP does not reward jumps enough.

3) This system forces skaters to calculate while on the ice, and they're constantly petrified of making a mistake. This stops them attempting things they have difficulties with. I believe that Evan is a good athlete, and had the old system been in place, Evan would have probably tried to have fixed his quad, but with this system it's pointless.

5) Skaters get rewarded for skateing clean, without taking risks.

The CoP was made to suite skaters like Evan, but it has also affected the way skaters skate. I personnaly would have given gold to Plush.
i'd say the real problem is the system and not Evan - ha was just doing his job. he understood what was required, so congrats to him.
But I agree with Elvis, there's a problem and it needs to be fixed.
 

gfskater

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
When Elvis Stoyko says Johnny was undermarked you KNOW the judges screwed him.

The judges seemed to give Johnny props if you look at the score sheet.

He got + GOEs on most of his elements, the elements just had lower base values. He got an edge call on the flip and stepped out of a spin half way through so those two got -GOE.

They gave him +GOE on everything else! How can you say they screwed him????
 

show 42

Arm Chair Skate Fan
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I am not a huge Evan fan myself, love Johnny's form of skating better. That being said, I have to take issue with Elvis and Sasha's comments, typical I think, of former Olympic medalists who didn't get the job of being on top done. Sour grapes. This is figure skating, not quad jumping. All elements are taken into account. And if you prefer Jeffrey (whose a gorgeous skater) to Evan, Evan stayed on his feet, didn't pop any jumps when it counted. If Evan didn't deserve the medal, then maybe Shen and Zhao shouldn't have won over Pang and Tong. She collapsed on a lift. Okay, Plushy landed quad jumps (love Plushy by the way) but jumps are not the only thing scored........42
 

gfskater

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
You need to look at the scoring sheets people. The judges gave Evan more negative GOEs than they did Yevgeny. How can that be favoring Evan. Evans program components had a higher base value because the components were more difficult or appeared later in the program for a bonus.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2010/owg10_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Yes Plushenko did a 4T+3T, but what about the rest of the jumps. Even did five of the hard jumps after the half way mark so he received a bonus. All of Evans spins were level 4, His footwork was superior to Plushenko’s.

If you recorded it, watch again, make sure you watch their feet. Plushenko moves his arms and body around but watch his feet. There was not a lot of difficult foot-work i.e. combinations of rockers, counters, brackets, turns.... Also, compare the kicks. Evan's is higher than his shoulders and Yevgeny's barely above the waist. These were two different levels of footwork.
 

gfskater

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
I am not a huge Evan fan myself, love Johnny's form of skating better. That being said, I have to take issue with Elvis and Sasha's comments, typical I think, of former Olympic medalists who didn't get the job of being on top done. Sour grapes. This is figure skating, not quad jumping. All elements are taken into account. And if you prefer Jeffrey (whose a gorgeous skater) to Evan, Evan stayed on his feet, didn't pop any jumps when it counted. If Evan didn't deserve the medal, then maybe Shen and Zhao shouldn't have won over Pang and Tong. She collapsed on a lift. Okay, Plushy landed quad jumps (love Plushy by the way) but jumps are not the only thing scored........42

Also, the rest of the jumps that Evan did had a higher base value and were in the second half of the program.
 
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