02-20-2010, 04:14 PM
You prefer that Plushy mail his 2002 Silver medal to Tim Goebel. Goebel did three quads. Since quad is only thing that counts maybe Yags should also send his medal to Goebel.
Originally Posted by jennylovskt
Or now you return to 2002 argument that quad is not important and all around skating is what matters
02-20-2010, 04:20 PM
I am glad to see the hate is alive and well at GS. I came on today to see what the atmosphere was like and now I will be leaving. I am glad I have been at the olympics where the atmosphere is wonderful and people are enjoying all the events. The true spirit of the games is very much on display here! Congrats to all the men's medalists!!!
02-20-2010, 04:30 PM
I don't like Tim Goebel's skating, never have. He was a jumping bean. I think by now, you should know what I prefer. I don't understand why you and many others are so afraid of talking about quad. It seems that it has to be either this or that. We don't have to choose. We can have both, quad and artistry. (I have to say that your "king" doesn't have either one of these.)
Originally Posted by janetfan
Last edited by jennylovskt; 02-20-2010 at 05:11 PM.
02-20-2010, 04:31 PM
While i do not think it should be all about quads, i think some things with the new scoring needs to be addressed. Still needs tweaking after this in singles skating. I myself still felt Plushenko should have won and i asked my family in Canada and they thought the same. I prefer the artistic skaters right now like Lambiel, Weir, even Chan but i still think there needs to be a balance. They need time to really perform to the audience, perhaps making it alittle too complicated takes something away.i felt after the free programs let down. Lysacek's skating neither moved me artistically or emotionally, or thrilled me with the excitement of the jumps. My favourite of the Free programs i saw ended up to be Johnny Weir.
02-20-2010, 04:33 PM
Quad should be given more points. The fact that 3A/2t is almost the same amount of points is ridiculous. Of course you can't win with just one jump, but the fact that so few people do it should be taken into consideration. Also so few people attempt 3a/3t. Lysachek didn't even try it. That shows you the technical gap between him and Plush. With this scoring system technical development of skating is going nowhere.
02-20-2010, 05:07 PM
Now I do think that it should be worth more, but I don't think male skating should be so obessesed with it.
Originally Posted by volk
02-20-2010, 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by i love to skate
02-20-2010, 05:25 PM
My biggest issues when discussing the quad is it's often confused for a penis in terms of how vital it is for men's figure skating.
Originally Posted by jennylovskt
02-20-2010, 05:26 PM
Interesting comments from everyone.
1) 1 quad does not a champion make. In this new system, there are many ways to earn points. GOEs play a BIG role with as many as 8-10 points extra per program. It pays to pay attention to details. Aim for the bullet points in the GOE listing. Don't dismiss it.
2) Bad planning on their part. I was SURE he would throw 2 quads in the program. He did ONE. Had he done 2 he would have indeed taken hom the gold and the quad would be the reason why. This jump can make a winner but you need more than one.
3) The point value for a quad is ONLY 1.6 points greater than a 3A. That is not very much difference considering those pesky GOE's and level values. Pay attention to the system and learn math.
4) Elvis' comments were disappointing. I read somewhere where he commented that he knew how many hours and how much training it took to be able to have a consistent quad since he had one. He failed to mention that he knew how many hours go into making a good spin combination and a truly difficult(not flashy) footwork sequence........ oh wait, that's because he never put the effort into those elements so of course he doesn't know. I think he would be surprised. I don't even think his back sit spin would count today!
5) Scoring systems are what they are. In the past with the 6.0 system it was a bit of a mystery as far as how important certain elements were relative to others. At least now there is a list of points where one can see and compare what one can get, base, for certain elements. There were always suspect results for the 6.0 system, and there will be the same for this system. In addition this current system has been evolving and changing through the last 8 years. What was good 3 years ago may not make it now.
6) Let's also look at the history of skating since about 1988 onward. It seems like skating is going backward right now and maybe it is. But like any system that is "restarting", things need to get sorted out and new generations need to come forward. We will be seeing those generations soon. Look at kids like the novice men's champ nathan chen. 10 years old and 3 triples I think in his long program as well as the spins and great footwork sequences. This is the type of skater that grew up with this new system. quads were done while school figures were in place because they fostered body control and discipline. When they went away, the next set of skaters grew in the shadow of that discipline but didnt have that extra pressure and had more time to devote to the jumps. quad fever. Now with this new system, all the spinning and footwork reqiurements (if you want to be a contender) are like adding figures back. So there needs to be an adjustment made and it will happen over time, I'm sure of that.
Sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug. Plushenko benefitted from the same things he criticizes. He simply wanted to win and didnt like the results. Boo hoo. Be a good sportsman and leave off criticizing someone who hasn't done anything wrong but win.
Last edited by edge31; 02-20-2010 at 05:31 PM.
02-20-2010, 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue
02-20-2010, 05:36 PM
Quad should be worth more than what it should, I agree.
02-20-2010, 05:41 PM
I am reluctant to say this, but in the grand scheme of things Chan is a nobody whose opinion carries no weight whatsoever.
When the dust is settled, in the distant future (if FS would survive as a so-called "sport" at all) Plushenko will be remembered as a legend among all legends. Who else in modern era ever competed in three olympics and had the legitimate claim of being the true winner of all three, judges' decisions notwithstanding? (Yes, Plushenko would have won gold against Yagudin under the new system. He could not win at SLT because he finished 4th in the short program, which would have been of little consequence under the new system.)
02-20-2010, 05:49 PM
Heh. You must have a different definition of legitimate than I. Plushenko will be remembered as a legend in the sport, no doubt. His competitive vigour, his athleticism, the 4-3-3, the Torino rout. All these things contribute to his luster the way that Torvill/Dean's perfect 6.0s do theirs. But people will look at his 2010 program in a hundred years and wonder where all the skating is, and why is he flirting with the judges.
02-20-2010, 05:50 PM
Go marry the quad if you love it so much
So you believe you're entitled to issue a death threat to a skater, but a skater isn't entitled to say a colorful word describing the most delightful of human activities. That's some wacky standards you got there.
Originally Posted by watchvancouver
02-20-2010, 05:51 PM
Completely agree with you. Chan is pretty much just another journeyman. He would not have received the attention had he not been a skater from the host country of the Olympics.