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Thread: Chan, Stojko & other Canadians discuss the men's event

  1. #226
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    Well, everybody that knows me knows my view on this, as I love *sport* & I love jumps!

    And if figure skating wants to be recognized as a real sport it has to continue to progress with the jumps. Fact. Otherwise, remove it from the Olympics, as well as any other legitimate sporting event. Period. Put on shows like they do with the Ice Theatre of New York, or Dancing With The Stars, Disney On Ice, Stars on Ice, Cirque du Soleil. It has no business in the Olympics, or any other judged sport.
    Oh for god's sake, drama queen much? The "fact" you state is not a "fact" at all it's your opinion. State your opinion as much as you want but if you follow your opinion with "Fact" then i reserve my right to point and laugh at you and tell you to stop being such a drama queen. It isn't a fact at all.

    You present two completely polar opposite positions as the only option for figure skating - it isn't. You may live in a world of black and white only but the real world has shades of grey. Figure skating won't self destruct just because some people are boo-hooing that their favourites didn't win or aren't leading in certain events. You don't think judged sports deserve a place int he Olympics then kiss goodbye to a large number of highly popular well viewed and well attended events including skating, snow boarding, moguls, gymnastics etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    And as far as quads for men & triple axels for women go, yes, they must be MORE in points than any other element out there, be it a 3/3 combo. or sequence or a triple after the half way mark, et al. Since the quad is the hardest element for the men, then its value must be the most by far, and the same goes for the women with the triple axel!
    Do you even know the points for the elements? Last time i checked the 4T is scored much more highly than a triple axel, which is scored much more highly than the rest of the triples - its value is the "most by far"?? Personally i don't think there is a problem with the absolute scale of values for individual elements, but i would certinaly address the fact that jumps done in combiantion and sequence are harder than doing the same jumps individually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    As I stated in another thread about the quad, I would like to see a consortium of quadsters come together whom quad with regularity & consistency (e.g. Elvis Stojko, Timothy Goebel, Alexei Yagudin, Evgeni Plushenko, Stephane Lambiel, Brian Joubert) and state their case before a panel of ISU & COP judges/dignitaries/etc. to explain in detail how hard the quad is to master & perform correctly for the men, thus its point value must reflect this to the point its value exceeds anything out there, especially when in combination like a 4/3.
    So in order to change the rules for the majority, we shuold bring together a bunch of skaters that all believe the same thing and make them change the rules? Doesn't sound very democratic to me. I would like to see a greater number of coaches, together with skaters past and present from all federtaions come to gether to discuss the changes that are necessary for the COP to work better. The values for quads and triple axels were raised already and i din't think raising the value any more will fix the problems people are compalining about (largely because a large number of people are not arguing for changes because they system doesn't work but because their favourites didn't finish where they wanted them to). Many things need to be looked at in the COP but the scale of value IMO is not one of them. For me the most important thing would be to address the COMBO and SEQ problems, next i think I would try to encourage more all around skating including risky elements by including bonus points for a full set of five triples for the ladies, a higher bonus still for a full set of 6 triples from the ladies and for the men include a bonus for a full set of triples and a full set of triple plus a quad. After that I would probably address the +GOE problem on the 3A and quads so that the + can go positive in teh same range as the - goes negative.

    Adding points to the 3A or the quads will not fix anything IMO!

    Ant

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Elvis is a genius and also very fair and unbiased with no bitterness
    This comment isn't related to my comment at all. Elvis has the point. That is all.

    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    And yes, I have noticed both Yuna and Mao have a 3 flip but not the Men's Silver medalist.
    How embarrassing
    Perhapes, the best way was to leave the men's gold medal position empty, and just give out the silver and the bronze? That could save a lot of trouble aftermath.

  3. #228
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    Hey, ant, I was giving my opinion, just as you are. Feel free to disagree, but don't attack me, we can disagree without name-calling.

    If you want to contact me personally, feel free to do so via the PM function.

    Thank you.

    Sincerely, Nadine

  4. #229
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennylovskt View Post
    Perhaps, the best way was to leave the men's gold medal position empty, and just give out the silver and the bronze? That could save a lot of trouble aftermath.
    But then -- wait a minute -- who deserves the silver and who the bronze, Plushenko or Lysacek?

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    But then -- wait a minute -- who deserves the silver and who the bronze, Plushenko or Lysacek?
    I knew it! I knew this question is coming.

    Honestly, I don't care and don't even want to split my brain for it. The gold medal should be given to a true champion like Plushenko. If no one has reached that level, leave it empty.

    I know my answer wasn't politically correct or even logical. Tired of debating on this topic, really. But I do wish that this debate goes on and on, and finally result in changing.
    Last edited by jennylovskt; 02-25-2010 at 05:20 PM.

  6. #231
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    Lol, Elvis Stojko is the best! There's a reason why I've always loved not only his skating, but his mind! You can't break Elvis, he keeps going & going & going like the energizer bunny. I'm only sad I never got to meet him face-to-face. I'd love to sit down with him & rack his brain. Seriously.

  7. #232
    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
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    I don't want to go back through this thread & read all the postings but I would like to know what Kurt Browning's sentiments are on this subject. Does anyone have a link?

  8. #233
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    Lol, Elvis Stojko is the best! I'm only sad I never got to meet him face-to-face. I'd love to sit down with him & rack his brain. Seriously.
    Well I am sure that would only take 5 minutes tops

  9. #234
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    Lol, to tell the truth I actually had my eye out for him at the Mens Final because I remembered he had been at US Nationals, so I thought I might catch him there, but alas my luck ran out...

    He's a bulldog & I mean that in the very best way!

  10. #235
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jennylovskt View Post
    The gold medal should be given to a true champion like Plushenko. If no one has reached that level, leave it empty.
    I like that idea. Give the judges the option of saying, you all stink, go home.

    Actually, there are some contests like that, for instance prizes for playing the piano or something like that. If no one rises to the occasion they just do not award the prize that year.

  11. #236
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I like that idea. Give the judges the option of saying, you all stink, go home.

    Actually, there are some contests like that, for instance prizes for playing the piano or something like that. If no one rises to the occasion they just do not award the prize that year.
    Yes, but that usually has more to do with a failure in backstage politics than the way any notes were played.
    Judges are human and why should they give out nice prizes if they have not been properly compensated.
    Last edited by janetfan; 02-25-2010 at 02:47 PM.

  12. #237
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    It frustrates me that this is the only competition I didn't go, If I had gone we all know what result it would have been.
    NA should send me a thank you letter.:boohoo:

  13. #238
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Here are Brian Orser's thoughts on who won:

    "Given the way the system is,''' said Orser, coach of women's Olympic favorite Kim Yuna of South Korea. "The right winner was absolutely picked. I am a big fan of advancing the sport. I was one of the first ones to do triple axel, and I'm proud of that. I think that men's skating will continue to grow.

    "With this system, when you have 13 elements (in the long program) -- you have the quad, there's one, and then you have 12 more. Evan won on the technical score because of his GOEs (grades of execution) and because everything else was very good and sound. And then the components were also good. I have no question about who the winner was. I knew instantly it was going to go that way and should go that way.''

    Orser thought Plushenko's absence from competition for the three years after winning in 2006 might have played into his failure to grasp the nuances of the system's 2010 incarnation.

    "All of these guys who have been skating through these last four years have been skating with the system and trying to capitalize on the points,'' Orser said.

    from LA Times

  14. #239
    Custom Title Tigger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadine View Post
    Lol, Elvis Stojko is the best! There's a reason why I've always loved not only his skating, but his mind! You can't break Elvis, he keeps going & going & going like the energizer bunny. I'm only sad I never got to meet him face-to-face. I'd love to sit down with him & rack his brain. Seriously.
    Yes Nadine, it's obvious who your favourites are and that's great as no one likes the same things. However, I would much rather see skaters be able to walk properly after their skating careers. I've seen Elvis after he's skated at an After Show Reception. The man walks w/a very noticible limp and I wasn't the only one who saw that.

    Then there Yags, whose skating I loved, he's had a hip replacement/major surgery. Stephane, whose skating I love, he's more than likely on the same road w/his hip problems, not to mention the shape his knees are in. Tim Gobel developed serious foot problems due to the Quad. Then there's your beloved Plushy w/how many issues w/his groin, knees and hips? Not being nasty here BTW, I know Evgeni's had at least the one groin muscle torn and two knee scopings and a few other things, so I've lost track.

    Is it great to do the Quad, obviously. However, it's not the end all and be all of skating and I hope it never does go that way. Not just for the good of the sport, but also for the good of the Athletes. I think Evan should be applauded for his decision. Doing the Quad has given Evan a foot problem, he didn't want to make that worse, so decided he had enough to win w/out it. He did what was best for his Health and ended up also doing what was best for the Sport by proving that you need to do more than just a Quad to win a Skating Title.

    I still stand by what I said last week to friends of ours. That Gold Medal didn't come down to a Quad being done. It came down to a very wonky in the air Triple Axel and other Triples that were also wonky in the air compared to someone who had control and quality on all of the Triples he did.

    Yet, that somehow seems to be overlooked or not mentioned in all of these arguements.

    And two more things...I feel sorry for Elvis. He still can't seem to get past the fact that better all around skaters can still beat jumpers in the new COP era. I have a feeling he thought this new system would change that. Thank God it hasn't and I hope it never will. I believe Elvis is bitter over being beaten by others who had the complete package and I would include Kurt Browning beside Kulik and Urmanov. If he wasn't, then why would he be saying some of the things he's saying? It's pretty obvious in his comments how he really feels about all of this and he's only hurting himself in the end. As well as opening the eyes of a few people I know who thought Elvis wasn't as arrogant as I've been telling them over the years.

    Secondly...I hate to break it to all of the uber Elvis fans, but he is NOT a gracious or a nice guy. The stories I've heard and also things I've seen w/my own eyes over the years....Like the way he treated the staff at the Sudbury Arena back in the day of the old Elvis Tour. We're good friends w/the Chief Usher and he said if Katerina Witt had been so arrogant and uppity, he could kind of understand it, but she was one of the nicest big time Celebs he's ever met. Elvis OTOH, he treated them like dirt. Also, over all the years when I've got behind the Arena or at a Reception after a show Elvis has been in, if it's at the Backstage Door, he never stops or acknowledges the fans. It's straight to the bus. At a Reception, he does the barest he has to do, which is sign stuff and then he's gone!! He's also always been the first skater to leave a Reception too when I've attended them and usually it's a good twenty to thirty minutes between him leaving and the next skater leaving.

    So to me...Elvis' rantings over the last two weeks, not a surprise to me. At least now, people are beginning to see what I've seen and known for about fifteen years now. I do feel a bit sorry for him though, as he's only hurting himself and his reputation, but...As Mom reminds me, you reap what you sow in this life and...Elvis is certainly finding that out.

    Sadly, I don't think he gets why people are so ticked at him and that's even sadder to me.
    Last edited by Tigger; 02-25-2010 at 08:47 PM.

  15. #240
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    Love Elvis!

    I pretty much agree with him.

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