Will Evan's Win and Russia's Fury Hurt the Other Events? | Golden Skate

Will Evan's Win and Russia's Fury Hurt the Other Events?

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Russia is in an uproar over the "unfair" judging during the Men's Freeskate. I think most of us here disagree with them, but after the Russian Fed fell short in both the pairs and the men's events do you think that the judges will give them more of a chance in the dance? There are no serious condensers for a medal in the ladies, so Russia's last chance for a medal (Gold) is with the dance. I really hope we see more fair judging but fear that for the Russian Fed to walk away from this without a gold will be too terrible a fall from grace after they almost had a sweep in 2006.
 

UM84

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Russia is in an uproar over the "unfair" judging during the Men's Freeskate. I think most of us here disagree with them, but after the Russian Fed fell short in both the pairs and the men's events do you think that the judges will give them more of a chance in the dance? There are no serious condensers for a medal in the ladies, so Russia's last chance for a medal (Gold) is with the dance. I really hope we see more fair judging but fear that for the Russian Fed to walk away from this without a gold will be too terrible a fall from grace after they almost had a sweep in 2006.


If anything they will give them less, what they are doing is an embarrassment to the Olympics
 

Big Deal

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
C'mon judges!
Most of the particular segments of all 2 disciplines was judged fairly. Maybe first time since decades. Please, continue that, doesn't matter which skaters came from where.
Do care only the quality, like all the REAL fans. Thank you in advance!
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
I honestly think the judging has been fair, for the medal winners at least, and will continue to be fair :)
 

moscow

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
"Win Evan's Win and Russia's Fury Hurt the Other Events?"

Do you mean "WILL Evan's win..."??

I can't say I blame the russians. Are they going about it the wrong way, yes. But give them a break they are taking a huge hit to their ego right now. Whether or not you think a quad should be included in a champions gold medal performance, I think we can all agree both of them deserved the top two spots and really it could have gone either way with a different panel of judges. Evgeny has a right be upset. He also should be thrilled to add another olympic medal to his career. Don't worry this will all die down soon enough. Now to answer your question, I have to be honest and say I don't have much faith in the judges or the system so there is a chance the russians could be held up with all the pressure being put on. I think it's the least of our worries, the top teams are so close and have been close all season so again, things could probably go either way.
 

boo69

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
Probably. But with the way they've been skating their ODs and FD's, it's really hard to hold them up. I think D/S will get a medal, the colour I don't know. If D/S don't get the gold, I hope it goes to V/M. I don't see a North American sweep. I don't think ice dance is ready for that. I predict V/M, D/W, D/S on the podium. Maybe D/S may sneak in and get the silver. But hey, the ice is slippery and anything can happen.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
No, no need to worry, this Olympics is being held in North America. V&M will win and so too will D&W.
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Whether or not you think a quad should be included in a champions gold medal performance, I think we can all agree both of them deserved the top two spots and really it could have gone either way with a different panel of judges.
The interesting thing is that once you pour over the protocols (I did some calculations here - http://ptichkafs.livejournal.com/46416.html) - it seems that Lysacek's score would have been about the same with another panel but that Plushenko's could have been almost anything.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Evgeny has a right be upset.

Yes, I agree that Evgeny has a right to be upset. Especially he should be upset because of his own jumping and because of the arrogance of his team combined with a surprising CoP-ignorance. Even with having an off-jumping day Evgeny could have won the freeskate and the event, if his programme had been smarter CoP-wise.
 
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gfskater

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
I am tired of hearing about how Evgeny did a quad so he should have won. He did one less jump than Evan, Evan did 12 jumps, Evgeni did 11. You get 10% bonus for jumps after the half way mark, and you should. After the half, Evan did 8 Evgeni did 4.

Evan won because he did more jumps and his program was constructed correctly. Evgheny's coaches know how the point system works and they blew it for him. To me it appeared that Evgeny knew he lost when he finished, look at his face. To turn around and stir up controversy brings bad publicity to a sport that already has a tarnished reputation,

The fact the the judges gave them both the same PCS score is the outrage to me. Evan skated much better PCS wise. He skated like he had been training for four years. Evgeny skated like he got out of bed a few months ago and decided to skate at the Olympics. I am sorry but that is what it looked like to me. I watched both programs several times on DVR. Evan turned harder, on deeper edges, with more extension, power, and speed.

Evgeny thinks the other are his enemies, and there are many enemies. He thought he deserved the medal before he skated. You could see his disappointment 1 sec after he finished and before the scores were shown.

Athletes should look at their score sheets and see what went wrong before blaming the judges. If they find something wrong with the score they have a right to petition the panel. Don't go petition to the media when there is nothing there!
 
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Alatariel

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
I think there is no chance of Russia taking the gold.

This has to go to Canada and will go to Canada and the judges will make sure it goes to Canada.

Overall, it won't affect these Olympics but it most certainly will affect the following competitions and you can bet that four years from now the North Americans, rightfully so, don't have to hope for much. Hey it's how the game is played.

Oh yes and by the way, ^^^^, stop trying to make Plushenko into some sort of monster. Dear lord, you are all insane. Enemies - he means opponents - his English sucks which is painfully obvious. Yes, yes, the big ebil Russian ... we know, we know....
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Oh yes and by the way, ^^^^, stop trying to make Plushenko into some sort of monster. Dear lord, you are all insane. Enemies - he means opponents - his English sucks which is painfully obvious. Yes, yes, the big ebil Russian ... we know, we know....

I agree Plushy is probably a good guy.
But his own actions have brought some of the bad feelings and if he continues to whine like a spoiled brat the bad feeling against him will continue.

Evan must feel like he beat a 12 year old the way Plushy is talking. Maybe because the Russians are having their worst Olympics ever there was big pressure on Plushy to win the Gold. Maybe that is why he can't accept that under CoP Evan outskated him.
I even wonder if Mishin and the choreo guy get it or even understand CoP very well?

Four years from now is a long time away. For now Evan is GP champion, World champion and Olympic Champion. Has anyone ever held all three title at the same time before?

This is the era of King Evan and the class he has shown since becoming King of The Ice will be good for skating.
 
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Alatariel

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Four years from now is a long time away. For now Evan is GP champion, World champion and Olympic Champion. Has anyone ever held all three title at the same time before?

This is the era of King Evan and the class he has shown since becoming King of The Ice will be good for skating.

In the mind of the US yes, it's probably King Evan. Not so much in the mind of the rest of the world. I am still to hear a complimentary thing about his win. Unfair to him if you ask me, as he himself is not at fault. I call him a mediocre drone for that is what he is to me, but I don't dispute his level of skating, such as it is - far from perfect, far from being the all round skater - but nobody is at the moment as I see it.

In regards to the good for the skating bit -

In fact, he's guilty or rather I am of skating losing a potential fan. I finally, finally got one of my close friends to watch skating. I figured the men's a safe bet with that field. What a mistake to make as the old 'Allo 'Allo series would go. She went through the roof, her hubby was even worse and both vowed never to watch again, any of the events. They kept ranting on how they were right, and skating is corrupt and on and on. I pretty much cringed. Their fav of the night was Dai by the way but in the end they were just disgusted with Evan as champion. They kept repeating - that? That won? He has no passion, no jumps, no nothing! They thought the whole thing was rigged and decided they were right in the first place not to bother.

The point is - he will be good for skating - no, he won't. Skating already is not a hugely popular sport. The whole judging bit has already made it shady. A champion who is mediocre in everything, with no charisma at all will be anything but good. I keep seeing one thing over and over - Evan Lysacek skated clean on the night, .... then comes the clincher - but he seems like the most underwhelming Olympic champion in recent history. And he is. Horrible for skating in the terms of attracting fans who are not from the US. And how long will those US fans stay ah? A year? That would be a success.

The rules need to change and they need to change fast or well, I don't predict a particularly bright future for figure skating.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
I think there is no chance of Russia taking the gold.

This has to go to Canada and will go to Canada and the judges will make sure it goes to Canada.

Overall, it won't affect these Olympics but it most certainly will affect the following competitions and you can bet that four years from now the North Americans, rightfully so, don't have to hope for much. Hey it's how the game is played.

Oh yes and by the way, ^^^^, stop trying to make Plushenko into some sort of monster. Dear lord, you are all insane. Enemies - he means opponents - his English sucks which is painfully obvious. Yes, yes, the big ebil Russian ... we know, we know....

Just so I understand clearly, you think it's right that in four years from now the North Americans won't do well because of their success here? And you think that's right?
 

ranjake

Final Flight
Joined
Mar 19, 2005
that's so true about the language thing. i have some russian friends, and their english is more formal. i think by enemies evgeny meant opponents. and i don't think his english is bad. it's way better than my russian!
 

UM84

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
In the mind of the US yes, it's probably King Evan. Not so much in the mind of the rest of the world. I am still to hear a complimentary thing about his win. Unfair to him if you ask me, as he himself is not at fault. I call him a mediocre drone for that is what he is to me, but I don't dispute his level of skating, such as it is - far from perfect, far from being the all round skater - but nobody is at the moment as I see it.

In regards to the good for the skating bit -

In fact, he's guilty or rather I am of skating losing a potential fan. I finally, finally got one of my close friends to watch skating. I figured the men's a safe bet with that field. What a mistake to make as the old 'Allo 'Allo series would go. She went through the roof, her hubby was even worse and both vowed never to watch again, any of the events. They kept ranting on how they were right, and skating is corrupt and on and on. I pretty much cringed. Their fav of the night was Dai by the way but in the end they were just disgusted with Evan as champion. They kept repeating - that? That won? He has no passion, no jumps, no nothing!

I find this part commical because he had more jumps the Dai and Plushenko, and they were all clean. Let's face it, Evan played the system like a violin. Him and his coach have been studying this system for the past couple years, and it is showing (World, Olympic, GP champ). It's about wining, and they developed a program they knew would win.
 

Alatariel

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Just so I understand clearly, you think it's right that in four years from now the North Americans won't do well because of their success here? And you think that's right?

Of course it is. Why shouldn't it be? If the N.American games give boosts to OGMs for N.Americans then it is proper that the games in Russia give boosts to Russia and their friends. Or is there some rule that I don't know about where Russians and the rest of the world need to play fair in order to not make NAs cry mommy while NAs can do what they like? Somehow I don't think so.

that's so true about the language thing. i have some russian friends, and their english is more formal. i think by enemies evgeny meant opponents. and i don't think his english is bad. it's way better than my russian!

His vocabulary is not good. I've heard him in several interviews and he struggles with the same things that many foreigners struggle with - the idea that if for example in your language you have one word, in English it may be two words - like work and function. In many languages this is just one term, in English not. This is what I mean by bad English - foreigners who had to learn English will understand this problem and not take everything he says literally because they themselves had to think about it a bit at first perhaps. On the other hand people like ^^^ will just latch onto it, because it suits their own agenda. His English overall is fine. And yes, I speak a bit of Russian myself and know quite a few of them - they do speak English in a very particular way but this is a consequence of the structure of their own language.
 

Alatariel

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
I find this part commical because he had more jumps the Dai and Plushenko, and they were all clean. Let's face it, Evan played the system like a violin. Him and his coach have been studying this system for the past couple years, and it is showing (World, Olympic, GP champ). It's about wining, and they developed a program they knew would win.

You see, no, it's not just about winning. This is why we have Olympic champions remembered to this day even though their wins happened decades ago and we have an Olympic champion from 2002 in figure skating for example that provokes just one question when mentioned - who? It's something quite a few people don't get and it seems you included, though no surprise there.

Dai understands this. And Plushenko commented on just that aspect of his performance. It's how you win too. Lysacek on the other hand, hasn't got a clue which is the cause of many of these comments we are seeing these days.

Oh yes, btw, you did read what I wrote or do you just pick what you like? These people are not fs fans. They saw the men's program. They saw quads, quad in a combination and to them a 3A and a wobbly 3A was blah.
 
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cosmos

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
In the mind of the US yes, it's probably King Evan. Not so much in the mind of the rest of the world. I am still to hear a complimentary thing about his win. Unfair to him if you ask me, as he himself is not at fault. I call him a mediocre drone for that is what he is to me, but I don't dispute his level of skating, such as it is - far from perfect, far from being the all round skater - but nobody is at the moment as I see it.

In regards to the good for the skating bit -

In fact, he's guilty or rather I am of skating losing a potential fan. I finally, finally got one of my close friends to watch skating. I figured the men's a safe bet with that field. What a mistake to make as the old 'Allo 'Allo series would go. She went through the roof, her hubby was even worse and both vowed never to watch again, any of the events. They kept ranting on how they were right, and skating is corrupt and on and on. I pretty much cringed. Their fav of the night was Dai by the way but in the end they were just disgusted with Evan as champion. They kept repeating - that? That won? He has no passion, no jumps, no nothing! They thought the whole thing was rigged and decided they were right in the first place not to bother.

The point is - he will be good for skating - no, he won't. Skating already is not a hugely popular sport. The whole judging bit has already made it shady. A champion who is mediocre in everything, with no charisma at all will be anything but good. I keep seeing one thing over and over - Evan Lysacek skated clean on the night, .... then comes the clincher - but he seems like the most underwhelming Olympic champion in recent history. And he is. Horrible for skating in the terms of attracting fans who are not from the US. And how long will those US fans stay ah? A year? That would be a success.

The rules need to change and they need to change fast or well, I don't predict a particularly bright future for figure skating.

It is not Evan's fault, not judges' fault. It was just what happened. Blame Lambiel, Takahasi, Chan, Abbot who failed to deliver clean performance.
 

UM84

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
You see, no, it's not just about winning. This is why we have Olympic champions remembered to this day even though their wins happened decades ago and we have an Olympic champion from 2002 in figure skating for example that provokes just one question when mentioned - who? It's something quite a few people don't get and it seems you included, though no surprise there.

It is about winning, let me borrow a quote from Belbin and Agosto "If we didn't think we could win the gold, we wouldn't be here". It might not be for skaters who know they have no chance, but for the top skaters winning a gold/championship is everything.
 
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