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Thread: Will Evan's Win and Russia's Fury Hurt the Other Events?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alatariel View Post
    In the mind of the US yes, it's probably King Evan. Not so much in the mind of the rest of the world. I am still to hear a complimentary thing about his win. Unfair to him if you ask me, as he himself is not at fault. I call him a mediocre drone for that is what he is to me, but I don't dispute his level of skating, such as it is - far from perfect, far from being the all round skater - but nobody is at the moment as I see it.

    In regards to the good for the skating bit -

    In fact, he's guilty or rather I am of skating losing a potential fan. I finally, finally got one of my close friends to watch skating. I figured the men's a safe bet with that field. What a mistake to make as the old 'Allo 'Allo series would go. She went through the roof, her hubby was even worse and both vowed never to watch again, any of the events. They kept ranting on how they were right, and skating is corrupt and on and on. I pretty much cringed. Their fav of the night was Dai by the way but in the end they were just disgusted with Evan as champion. They kept repeating - that? That won? He has no passion, no jumps, no nothing!
    I find this part commical because he had more jumps the Dai and Plushenko, and they were all clean. Let's face it, Evan played the system like a violin. Him and his coach have been studying this system for the past couple years, and it is showing (World, Olympic, GP champ). It's about wining, and they developed a program they knew would win.

  2. #17
    Worshipping at the temple of Severus Snape Alatariel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Just so I understand clearly, you think it's right that in four years from now the North Americans won't do well because of their success here? And you think that's right?
    Of course it is. Why shouldn't it be? If the N.American games give boosts to OGMs for N.Americans then it is proper that the games in Russia give boosts to Russia and their friends. Or is there some rule that I don't know about where Russians and the rest of the world need to play fair in order to not make NAs cry mommy while NAs can do what they like? Somehow I don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by ranjake View Post
    that's so true about the language thing. i have some russian friends, and their english is more formal. i think by enemies evgeny meant opponents. and i don't think his english is bad. it's way better than my russian!
    His vocabulary is not good. I've heard him in several interviews and he struggles with the same things that many foreigners struggle with - the idea that if for example in your language you have one word, in English it may be two words - like work and function. In many languages this is just one term, in English not. This is what I mean by bad English - foreigners who had to learn English will understand this problem and not take everything he says literally because they themselves had to think about it a bit at first perhaps. On the other hand people like ^^^ will just latch onto it, because it suits their own agenda. His English overall is fine. And yes, I speak a bit of Russian myself and know quite a few of them - they do speak English in a very particular way but this is a consequence of the structure of their own language.

  3. #18
    Worshipping at the temple of Severus Snape Alatariel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UM84 View Post
    I find this part commical because he had more jumps the Dai and Plushenko, and they were all clean. Let's face it, Evan played the system like a violin. Him and his coach have been studying this system for the past couple years, and it is showing (World, Olympic, GP champ). It's about wining, and they developed a program they knew would win.
    You see, no, it's not just about winning. This is why we have Olympic champions remembered to this day even though their wins happened decades ago and we have an Olympic champion from 2002 in figure skating for example that provokes just one question when mentioned - who? It's something quite a few people don't get and it seems you included, though no surprise there.

    Dai understands this. And Plushenko commented on just that aspect of his performance. It's how you win too. Lysacek on the other hand, hasn't got a clue which is the cause of many of these comments we are seeing these days.

    Oh yes, btw, you did read what I wrote or do you just pick what you like? These people are not fs fans. They saw the men's program. They saw quads, quad in a combination and to them a 3A and a wobbly 3A was blah.
    Last edited by Alatariel; 02-20-2010 at 08:37 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alatariel View Post
    In the mind of the US yes, it's probably King Evan. Not so much in the mind of the rest of the world. I am still to hear a complimentary thing about his win. Unfair to him if you ask me, as he himself is not at fault. I call him a mediocre drone for that is what he is to me, but I don't dispute his level of skating, such as it is - far from perfect, far from being the all round skater - but nobody is at the moment as I see it.

    In regards to the good for the skating bit -

    In fact, he's guilty or rather I am of skating losing a potential fan. I finally, finally got one of my close friends to watch skating. I figured the men's a safe bet with that field. What a mistake to make as the old 'Allo 'Allo series would go. She went through the roof, her hubby was even worse and both vowed never to watch again, any of the events. They kept ranting on how they were right, and skating is corrupt and on and on. I pretty much cringed. Their fav of the night was Dai by the way but in the end they were just disgusted with Evan as champion. They kept repeating - that? That won? He has no passion, no jumps, no nothing! They thought the whole thing was rigged and decided they were right in the first place not to bother.

    The point is - he will be good for skating - no, he won't. Skating already is not a hugely popular sport. The whole judging bit has already made it shady. A champion who is mediocre in everything, with no charisma at all will be anything but good. I keep seeing one thing over and over - Evan Lysacek skated clean on the night, .... then comes the clincher - but he seems like the most underwhelming Olympic champion in recent history. And he is. Horrible for skating in the terms of attracting fans who are not from the US. And how long will those US fans stay ah? A year? That would be a success.

    The rules need to change and they need to change fast or well, I don't predict a particularly bright future for figure skating.
    It is not Evan's fault, not judges' fault. It was just what happened. Blame Lambiel, Takahasi, Chan, Abbot who failed to deliver clean performance.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alatariel View Post
    You see, no, it's not just about winning. This is why we have Olympic champions remembered to this day even though their wins happened decades ago and we have an Olympic champion from 2002 in figure skating for example that provokes just one question when mentioned - who? It's something quite a few people don't get and it seems you included, though no surprise there.
    It is about winning, let me borrow a quote from Belbin and Agosto "If we didn't think we could win the gold, we wouldn't be here". It might not be for skaters who know they have no chance, but for the top skaters winning a gold/championship is everything.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I agree Plushy is probably a good guy.
    But his own actions have brought some of the bad feelings and if he continues to whine like a spoiled brat the bad feeling against him will continue.

    Evan must feel like he beat a 12 year old the way Plushy is talking. Maybe because the Russians are having their worst Olympics ever there was big pressure on Plushy to win the Gold. Maybe that is why he can't accept that under CoP Evan outskated him.
    I even wonder if Mishin and the choreo guy get it or even understand CoP very well?

    Four years from now is a long time away. For now Evan is GP champion, World champion and Olympic Champion. Has anyone ever held all three title at the same time before?

    This is the era of King Evan and the class he has shown since becoming King of The Ice will be good for skating.
    First of all, "continues to whine?" Have a look at the media coverage. Plushenko hasn't "continued" anything! There are hundreds of articles with identical content referring and provoking one and only thing: Plushenko (THE russian) is a no-talent, no-good, idiot. Not to mention the continuos references to europeans in general. People who don't know a thing about skating or who don't really even care about skating simply spit out what comes to mind. Have you seen the youtube interview comments... A whole new level for a period of less than two days, I'd say.

    As for Evan.
    What did he do? What is the great thing King Evan has brought to skating? A knowledge that he knows how to play by the rules? Certainly. Something special or worthy of remembering? No. Making no comparisons to anybody else: to but it softly, his skating was simply plain.
    Last edited by Smuusik; 02-20-2010 at 08:59 AM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuusik View Post
    First of all, "continues to whine?" Have a look at the media coverage. Plushenko hasn't "continued" anything! There are hundreds of articles with identical content referring and provoking one and only thing: Plushenko (THE russian) is a no-talent, no-good, idiot. Not to mention the continuos references to europeans in general. People who don't know a thing about skating or who don't really even care about skating simply spit out what comes to mind. Have you seen the youtube interview comments... A whole new level for a period of less than two days, I'd say.

    As for Evan.
    What did he do? What was the great thing King Evan has brought to skating? A knowledge that he knows how to play by the rules? Certainly. Something special or worth to remember? No. Making no comparisons to anybody else: to but it softly, his skating was simply plain.
    King Evan scored the most points. He did his best under tremendous pressure. That is something Americans identify strongly with.
    He may not be memorable to you and many others but we are proud of his stunning accomplishment.

    We are even prouder than you will ever understand because we know there are more talented skaters out there.
    But when I want beauty on the ice I watch the women. Most Americans feel the same way. We don't want a fancy pants champion and are perfectly fine with a blue collar champion. We know he worked and trained as hard as possible and was able to perform his best when it counted most.

    You are free as are the others to prefer other skaters. Jeremy is actually my favorite along with Dai and Lambiel.
    But Evan has something the others all wanted very badly. It is so obvious that Evan wanted it more than the others and I find it quite miraculous that he won it fair and square.

    I remember once BOP made up a list of the top guys and how they would finish it they all skated their best. I think Evan was 12th and really just thrown in as an afterthought coz he was the WC.

    I prefer this criteria: who will be able to skate their best under the big pressure of the Olympics?
    That would be Evan, Plushy, Dai and let's throw in Johnny.
    That is the list that matters to me. I respect the best competitors in any sport first and foremost.
    Last edited by janetfan; 02-20-2010 at 09:24 AM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    He may not be memorable to you and many others but we are proud of his stunning accomplishment.

    We are even prouder than you will ever understand because we know there are more talented skaters out there.
    But when I want beauty on the ice I watch the women. Most American feels the same way. We don't want a fancy pants champion and are perfectly fine with a blue collar champion.
    Finally someone explained.

  9. #24
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    Bottom line, Plushenko lost because on this occasion he did not skate well.

    Lysacek may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he gave it his all when it counted most.

    That's sports. If you want the gold medal you have to skate for it.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by UM84 View Post
    It is about winning, let me borrow a quote from Belbin and Agosto "If we didn't think we could win the gold, we wouldn't be here". It might not be for skaters who know they have no chance, but for the top skaters winning a gold/championship is everything.
    And you still don't get it. Well no surprise really.

    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    King Evan scored the most points. He did his best under tremendous pressure. That is something Americans identify strongly with.
    He may not be memorable to you and many others but we are proud of his stunning accomplishment.

    We are even prouder than you will ever understand because we know there are more talented skaters out there.
    Of course you're proud. You worked very hard to get him there. But this is not something the rest of us are not aware of. We just tend to react negatively to your 'hard work'.

    Don't be surprised when quite a few people spit on that work though.

    And I think even a child can tell great talent and Evan Lysacek do not go in the same sentence.
    Last edited by Alatariel; 02-20-2010 at 09:48 AM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Bottom line, Plushenko lost because on this occasion he did not skate well.

    Lysacek may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he gave it his all when it counted most.

    That's sports. If you want the gold medal you have to skate for it.
    Thank you. If it was so easy why do think Brian Joubert finished 16th? You think he just woke up on Tuesday and said, I'm gonna bomb this competition for the hell of it? No, it's hard and nerve-wracking and for most people, this affects their skating. Oda had a panic attack before his SP, Jeremy was a basket case, Tomas imploded....none of these things happened on purpose, they just happened because it's the Olympics and there's pressure and you get nervous and things run through your head. Evan probably had the most pressure of anyone and he was able to deal with it and skate two clean programs, winning and deserving to win the title. Plushenko's jumps likely looked so scary because he was nervous or giving into pressure....yes, he save the jumps, but just barely and didn't give the performance his all so Evan won, fair and square. Evan has gotten a lot farther in his career as a good competitor without the quad than many headcases with the quad.

  12. #27
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alatariel View Post
    And I think even a child can tell great talent and Evan Lysacek do not go in the same sentence.
    I think you are making too much of a sports contest. You don't have to have great talent, just be better than the other guy on that day.

    Then you go on with your life.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alatariel View Post
    And you still don't get it. Well no surprise really.



    Of course you're proud. You worked very hard to get him there. But this is not something the rest of us are not aware of. We just tend to react negatively to your 'hard work'.

    Don't be surprised when quite a few people spit on that work though.

    And I think even a child can tell great talent and Evan Lysacek do not go in the same sentence.
    Ha, ha.
    If bitterness is your thing why not go suck a lemon and then look at yourself in the mirror. Your expression would be the same as your posts here.

    BTW, congrats to Plushy for winning another Olympic medal. He is surely the skater of the decade and a skater for the ages.
    I hope he will consider continuing and if he remains healthy I am sure he will win more titles.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Bottom line, Plushenko lost because on this occasion he did not skate well.

    Lysacek may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he gave it his all when it counted most.

    That's sports. If you want the gold medal you have to skate for it.
    I absolutely agree. After the men's FS my parents were going gaga over Lysacek (which I enjoyed; I'm a fan). But after they had trundled off to bed and my brother and I were sitting discussing what happened, he looked at me quietly and then, shaking his head, said, "I like Plushenko so much more. He's got that thing."

    Evan deserved that gold; he was the best that night, and that's the way skating works: you have to put it down at the right moment. But I think it is telling that Evan had two skates of his life, and Evgeni had two so-so sub par skates. And it came down to a point and a half. Evan won, but Plushenko - without winning - proved he was the better skater.

    Since I'm fans of both of them (something, it seems, that is rare here or anywhere...) I was quite happy with that. However it means I can't read any articles about the men's skating, which I usually love, because the author usually bashes one or the other. Say nothing of turning on the TV here in America, I've had quite enough of "the villain Russian" and terribly hope it doesn't come up in dance. Sigh.

  15. #30
    The Future Mrs. Evan Lysacek #1Kerryfan's Avatar
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    The Russians seem to think they're entitled to golds. Remember 2002?

    And as for "King Evan," say what you want, but he is a VERY gracious winner.

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