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Thread: Ice Dance's OD - Sunday 21st 7:15pm EST

  1. #601
    Always Believed! Sk8n Mama's Avatar
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    Prepare for the apocalypse: the ice dance judging is fair and two North American couples are duking it out for Olympic Gold.

    I don't agree that B/A should have been thrid. Trying to judge it as objectively as possible and saw some technical errors. In both the OD and the CD I've noticed Tanith and Ben need to pay more attention to keeping that footwork crisp and neat. It gets messy at points and the judges are most definitely looking at that. D/S has an easier program that was executed cleaner. B/A had a more difficult program with technical errors. I think, had the last lift not come down awkwardly, they might have placed higher but that + the little errors was too much. I agree that a different choice of dance with different choreo would have served them well.

    I was failing to see how D/S's OD was offensive. I was expecting much worse. Found this picture and it looks very much like what Maxim's costume what based upon. If they lost the ropes, it would have been pretty spot-on. I really hated the ropes swinging all over during the program.
    http://images.travelpod.com/users/to...ayx-sydney.jpg
    http://www.pa-pa.ca/image/Australian...ginals%202.jpg
    Last edited by Sk8n Mama; 02-22-2010 at 09:51 AM.

  2. #602
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    Linnichuck was completely off on a Folk Dance routine. She could do better. The aboriginal number would probably have been rejected in The Hollywood Ice Revue.

    What perked me up in this comp was Moir's Zapateado steps (that's when a male spanish dancer stamps his feet to the rhythm) which I thought he was making the sound.
    Great Flamenco by them both, but she could look more defiant instead of similing so much. Hope they get the marks they deserve in the FD. As I recall it, it looked so much like a balcony dance outside a gala party inside on a warm summer night.

  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sk8n Mama View Post
    Prepare for the apocalypse: the ice dance judging is fair and two North American couples are duking it out for Olympic Gold.
    And no-one in the forum is claiming fixed judging and arguing for D&S to be placed higher... A flock of pigs illuminated by a blue moon just flew by my window....

  4. #604
    Spending too much time at the arena CdnSkateWatcher's Avatar
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    Victor Kraatz was quite scathing on the subject of that aboriginal OD. It was not just that it was disrespectful; his point being that where others have pursued similar avenues, they have made a point of meeting with the actual aboriginal group and ensuring that what they are portraying is accurate and respectful. In this instance, there are a number of issues in terms of portrayal, and it is offensive on many points, including things that could have been addressed easily such as the colour of the costumes. Yes ,they did lose the bodypaint which was a point of concern, however, they retained other aspects which they had brought to their attention.

    His other point was that, regardless of that, is that it is inappropriate to appear naked in a skating competition, which the loincloths definitely do regardless of the bodysuits. There is a clause in the rules which states that gaudy or inappropriate costumes should be subject to a deduction, which could, IMHO, be applied here.

    We'll leave as read that they were also sloppy in their technique; I wonder if the pressure of knowing the negativity related to this dance affected them? I didn't expect to see this type of skating from a pair at this level.

    HOWEVER: V/M had even the commentators in silence, and my figureskating but icedance-abhorring son was speechless. That was what the sport needs to put out there ... quality, precision, and absolutely captivating performance that will get replayed and replayed on YouTube for good reasons!

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgel View Post
    And no-one in the forum is claiming fixed judging and arguing for D&S to be placed higher... A flock of pigs illuminated by a blue moon just flew by my window....
    Ha, ha - but it is not over yet!

    It is curious to me that B/A have a more difficult program than D/s but D/S is defended because they were cleaner.

    OK, that is how I always thought it should be. That is why I always thought Jamie and David won in SLC. A more difficult program can't be considered better if it has mistakes.

    I watch Ice Dancing because it is fun and even beautiful at times. Let's hope they all skate well tonight and let the judging be as fair as possible.

  6. #606
    Always Believed! Sk8n Mama's Avatar
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    There is a clause in the rules which states that gaudy or inappropriate costumes should be subject to a deduction, which could, IMHO, be applied here.
    Really, though, how many other couples deserved that as well? The costumes, on the whole, were too 'over-the-top', IMHO. Between the props, the vocals, the outfits...I know they're trying to make ice dance more palatable to the general public but I kind of thought it made things worse, not better.

    Actually, CTV was discussing the ODs this morning and said that D/S met with the first nations (I think they meant the Canadian 4 first nations) and got their blessing on the OD so they were trying to make sure it was in good taste. It just wasn't a good idea on their part. Once they knew it was too controversial, they should have gone with something else. I think we all thought they were doing something different? But, I wonder if, they didn't really realize until Euros and by then, it was too late for a whole new OD. I dunno.

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgel View Post
    And no-one in the forum is claiming fixed judging and arguing for D&S to be placed higher... A flock of pigs illuminated by a blue moon just flew by my window....
    Lol. There even seems to be a lot of love for team Shpilband. And no one is complaining that V/M are getting home ice advantage. This really is impossible!

    Good luck to all of the teams tonight, and may the best team win!

  8. #608
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    I think I could live with the D/S costumes if they weren't acting so cartoonish. They might as well have been in black-face because it was such a carictature. D/S are wonderful skaters but this program is just plain unpalatable. If they were at their best with good programs I would be excited to see what happened with such great quality skating going on with the other teams especially the top two teams. However I did think B/A were a bit undermarked. Not a fabulous program but it was complicated and well skated maybe a bit tight but their marks should have at least met D/S's.

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by nghtvsn View Post
    I'm not very familiar with the technical elements and scoring of ice dancing and that left me quite confused when the Canadian team was on top by what seemed to be a big amount.

    I didn't even think their performance was as interesting, quick or appealing as the american team that did the indian dance, so when they blew past their score I was kind of shocked.

    The russian team's dance seemed too cartoony with their exaggerated expressions. I didn't connect with me. Then belbin and agosto had that moldova dance which I felt was flat as well. The music did nothing for me and the costumes were a bit overpowering.

    I'm still annoyed at the canadian team's overall score since it's 11 points better than 5th place. Is it possible for a team to overcome a 7-11 point deficit going into the free skate?
    Barring a multiple fall splatfest by all the contenders ahead of them, no. Unlike singles, even a single point or two is considered difficult to overcome since the top teams tend to score around the same GoE and levels. Have a look at the protocols for Worlds 2009 FD. D/W lost the bronze by 0.04.

    I've only watched V/M and my gosh, were they on fire. Without doubt, the best I've seen them dance the Flamenco this season; the mid-line step was amazing! The little changes they've made really highlighted the Flamenco character better. Loved it!

    Erm I'd say ask the resident experts like Doris to explain the intricacies. All I can tell you is that levels matter A LOT in ice dance. One level can cost you a medal, especially on step sequences. They've been very strict with the step sequences this season, it's 100% clean edges I believe. Typically, the top teams tend to get Lvl 4s for Twizzles and Lifts. So it boils down to GoE. I won't bother going into PCS; I find it far too subjective (Skating Skills and Transitions aside) but ISU has a good 20-30 page rulebook detailing how everything is marked, including the breakdown for PCS marking.

    I haven't seen D/W's skate relative to V/M's so I can't comment. V/M's programme has more difficult transitions though.
    Excited for the Free Dance! GO TEAM SHPILBAND!!!

    I'm really sad about DelSchoes though. Skipping Euros is turning out to be a costly mistake.

  10. #610
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    I've only watched V/M and my gosh, were they on fire. Without doubt, the best I've seen them dance the Flamenco this season; the mid-line step was amazing! The little changes they've made really highlighted the Flamenco character better. Loved it!
    I'll rewatch their skate. Maybe I need to absorb their performance more, however, I will have to be rooting for D/W for the gold.

  11. #611
    Always Believed! Sk8n Mama's Avatar
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    And no-one in the forum is claiming fixed judging and arguing for D&S to be placed higher...
    Sadly, that's untrue (it's on another thread). Oh well, we can always dream....

  12. #612
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    I agree that Linchuk succeded in picking dances that showcased the worst things about her skaters. Tanith and Ben needed a much slower piece of music without all the toe dancng which is fun, but just not that hard to do. The final lift does not suit thier tall statutes and they messed it up every event this season. Domina and Shabalin.... Well i do not have to go there I will just say that if they had done a flamenco they would have been ahead right now.

    Both Shiplband teams were just great. It could have gone either way to me, and indeed the OD scores are close, V&M were at least a 1.5 ahead after the CD.

    This is great because barring disater one of the Shipband teams will win the gold, for both of them it is thier first olympics, neitehr are world champions ans Davis and White don't even have a world medal yet. I can't see Domina and Shablin getting out of third, Tanith and Ben won't get out of fourth. Sad for the latter, but honetly they don't deserve any higher. Ahhh the glory of fair juding!

  13. #613
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    Linichuk, IMHO, threw Tanith and Ben under teh bus... their OD looks like it was taking moves out of River Dance (all that standing around and hopping on the toe) and they've completely lost whatever spark it was that made them great.

    I don't expect to see them on the podium this time around and it's a shame. Here they made a move to become more technical - and they've improved - but no one is going to care because their programs don't showcase that.

  14. #614
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    Unfortunately, I agree with you Tonichelle. Tanith and Ben should've moved from Linichuk after Dom/Shab moved over, but I guess it was too late by then. :( I loved their Chopin program last year and Amelie. I'd heard that Linichuk wanted B/A to skate to Michael Jackson. I think they should've had their FD to the version of "Billie Jean" that D/W skate for their exhibition.

  15. #615
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    What is all this noise about DomShab`s aboriginal dance? Why if your dance a Spanish, Indian, Rusisan, etc. folk dance, it is not offensive, but if you dance an aboriginal folk dance, it is offensive? I do not understand.

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