I think those quotes are her original statements from January. The latest I could find was
Again, I hope it all ends well, one good effect of this is that I bet many skating fans who were comlpetely unaware of aboriginal culture (like me) now at least now a little bit about it. (Not from D/S dance though, but because of all the debates on this. And speaking of debates, I don't want to rehash them, I know I brought up this topic too, so now I'll stop.)http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...0209-nnlb.html
Manton said the decision to drop the costumes is a victory for common sense but the skaters also need to consider reworking the music in their routine.
"It's good that the skaters have recognised the offence the costumes caused to many Aboriginal people and the importance of not exploiting our culture," Manton said.
I preferred Davis and White to Virtue and Moir, although part of that may be because their music and program is unique, whereas V&M's program is more ordinary.
Tracy Wilson said what V&M did was risky though, so I guess that is what was rewarded.
Now as I said this kind of blank slate is a good thing but what irked me more than any of that black face issue etc is that they as world class figure skaters ended up looking totally detached from the rest of the world - they didn't bother to research just a tad and they didn't bother to contact someone with first hand knowledge in it. It is partially understandable in the sense I mentioned, they did seem completely naive about the whole issue but again, it irks me that in the 21st century it is suddenly that hard to google on the internet a bit and just find more about a topic or just ask. Not just DomShabs, their coaches etc too. Total lack of basic skills and simple logic in this day and age.
I am from Moldova and I can assure you - music, costumes, moves - very authentic, you can see them in any Moldavian (Romanian) dance!
It's just shoddy and shows a lack of respect although, personally, I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say it was offensive. I'm sure there's people in all cultures that would take exception to any given interpretation of their culture in the OD. Fortunately no-one decided to do an English folk dance so I didn't have to get upset at the sterotype of waving hankies and bells in a Morris Dance (given that there's at least five different types of Morris Dance!)
Last edited by Cadiva; 02-22-2010 at 07:38 PM.
Tesla, I have to concur that there may just have been an itty bitty, teeny tiny Canadian boost for V/M, whose OD, I thought, did not interpret the flamenco piece that impressively, particularly in the percussive sections...*runs and hides*
(full disclosure: I've never been the biggest fan of flamenco, preferring the original Arabic rhythms from which it has heavily borrowed, and this might well color my perception of any skate to flamenco. That said, D/W's disarmingly charming and well-researched Bollywood number played to both my musical and skating movement preferences)
Last edited by sarahmistral; 02-22-2010 at 09:09 PM.
I finally got to watch the OD from the other day...... flamenco by V/M...... flamenco???? hardly...... have they ever even watched any real flamenco???
Sorry everyone but it's a pet peeve of mine - I hate that ice dancers and pair skaters always want to do flamenco numbers because they are supposed to be sensual and passionate regarding the man and woman....... flamenco is 98% individual! And aside from the Lambiel flamenco number I would have to say that it should never be attempted....... ever again..... by any couple.... ice dance or pair.......
it looked more like a samba than flamenco...... the costumes weren't even up to snuff! she looked like she was about to do an international style latin number!
ok a little late here but i watch OD , hate davis and white bollywood , what is that?????? Under what folk/country category, not actually Indian folk dancing, not that authentic, oh goodness and skate so slow......boring put me to sleep
And before you go on, read what both of us have written first. You cannot expect countries who have not had issues with this kind of thing to automatically feel the same burdens that the Americans, Canadians and Australians feel. There just isn't any 'feeling' at all of this kind there.
I know because I don't have it myself. I sympathise on an visceral level, I can intellectually understand what went on, I can comprehend the complex situation now but I do not have any feelings whatsoever in regards to the 'guilt' or whatever towards the native peoples nor do I treat them any differently than anyone else. This has brought on trouble several times due to the burdens they themselves now carry - they could not understand the blasé attitude I had towards race, that was out of their experience so automatically it was labeled fake and insulting.
Now what I do blame them for I've already said; I put even more blame on the people around them, as not only DomShabs are involved there. But also you all have got to understand that there are other attitudes and other histories and people who have not had the sort of issues you've had. I do not expect you to, apart from a basic general knowledge, to understand the problems of the Caucasus (and no, I am not Russian but as a Euro these issues affect us all), it would not be normal for you to be aware of it.
Your, hypothetical, mistake would be the same as their's is now - lack of research when going into a venture such as this one and lack of basic skills that are familiar to most people when researching something of this sort. Or, if they had just asked someone directly there, they would have been made aware of the sensitivity of the issue - even now.
It is most likely they encountered the history but without talking to someone involved they did not extrapolate this to possible feelings that still exist today which would have been conveyed to them by someone on that side.
Nothing is ever black and white and it is easy to just condemn without bothering to realize that though they are in the wrong, there are reasons underneath it all that do not justify but at least explain some of it.
There was no malicious intent, which I think is very important to understand as it's quite different to mess up royally because you're a bit of a dunce and to intentionally insult someone on this level.
Last edited by Alatariel; 02-23-2010 at 06:30 AM.
The problem with relativizing the degree of offense, in my view, is that while all peoples have had experiences that most of the rest of the world is unaware of, and that's normal, as you say, Alatariel, the specific history of many colonized peoples, long derided as 'peoples without history' in the West, makes such instances of cross-cultural borrowing potentially more sensitive and fraught than they would otherwise be. Incidentally, I happened upon a documentary the other day about Aboriginal Australians in the Kimberley region who, in the early 20th century, when the pseudoscience of eugenics held sway, became the targets of a Swedish expedition whose members, looking for empirical evidence of their belief that the Aboriginals were the 'missing link', stole the bones of some one or two dozen of their ancestors and given the importance of burial of their elders in their belief system, was experienced as a particularly traumatic intrusion.
So while I understand that in theory, we can all get upset at how someone else misrepresents our culture, it is not unreasonable to suggest, as I did, that some groups, given their collective experiences, might be more offended than others. That you may understand this intellectually, Alatariel, but not viscerally, is perfectly normal, but it does not negate what I tried and perhaps failed to express in my original post. Cadiva, I can understand that you did not find the OD offensive, but all I have been trying to say is that this case goes beyond the usual degree to which people might be upset, and it does so for specific historical reasons.