I really liked Tim Goebel's comments and I agree with everything he said.
I thought that Plushenko and his coaches knew they were in trouble before the short program even began and that is why they already started complaining to the media beforehand. They knew Plushenko's program was weaker and not as well constructed and may not get the highest scores, so that's why they were mouthing off about the quad all the time.
Like Goebel says, I do think that the quad should get higher scores. If someone can do a triple triple combo and get almost as many points, then why bother to do a quad. Not many people can land them, so the risk takers should be rewarded with more points. I say a quad/triple combo should have been worth 15 points. Then Evgeny would have an argument that he should have won the Olympics.
In response to an earlier question, IIRC, Ryan Bradley did attempt two quads in the FS. I can't remember if both were ever clean.
About Tim Goebel and his three quads...In the preliminary version of the CoP that they were working on during the "interim" judging system in the 2002-22003 season, the ISU went back and re-scored the men's Olympic free skate as a test case.
Goebel won over Yagudin. This was obviously wrong, so they re-worked the scoring system, giving greater weight to PCSs, to make sure that in the new system a mere quad jumper like Goebel could not win over an all-around skater like Yagudin.
After Buttle won the world championship in 2008 over quad-man Joubert, the ISU decided they better raise the value of a quad from 9.0 to 9.8 points.
I agree with Oxade. Next year the ISU will raise it again, thus "saving men's figure skating" once more.
Last edited by Mathman; 02-22-2010 at 04:26 PM.
Cinquanta says the rule is fine and that he doesn't want it changed. He wants to see all around strong programs as more important than one jump.
Will you feel the same way if Mao lands three 3A's in Vancouver but still loses to Yuna?
It would be a similar argument - except Mao would only have to land two 3A's since Plushy only landed two quads.
I wonder if Tat will have the same argument as Mishin and claim "Yuna is not skating like a man" if she doesn't try the 3A
I finally read the thread to see what Russians and Plushenko said to find out that apart from some briliant adds it wasbasically three people comments on the Men's Event.
i thought i was in men's free thread.
I've always said that I felt 2007 GPF mens was an example of the problems with COP-in both the short and long.
In the short program Lambiel did a 4/3 and a 3axel. But he didn't get the greatest GOE because his landings where shaky. In ended up with second in the short program to Daisuke. Daisuke definetly had the better short program artistically. And he did get high GOE for his gorgeous 3flip/3toe, and his gorgeous 3axel. But its not like Lambiel isn't great at presentation himself, and I felt like because Lambiel did a 4/3 (even if it was shaky) he deserved the lead for taking that risk.
We had the opposite scenario in the long. In this case Lambiel had a better program than Daisuke. Love his creative Flamengo. But Lambiel's two quads were messed up, so was his triple axel and one of his 3/3s wasn't clean too. He did have a 3/3 though. In contrast, Daisuke landed a quad and 2 triple axels and went clean. His only mistake and it did cost him was doubling his second quad toe which meant he couldn't do a 3/3. However, considering all the jumps he landed and the fact that he is a very complete skater. I thought it was ridiculous that Lambiel ended up winning that competition. The sad and scary thing is their TES were almost tied!
I remember some people said that Tarasova in the commentary both commented and was like I understand Lambiel getting higher PCS, but Daisuke landed 2 triple axels and a clean quad and Lambiel didn't land any of those cleanly. And Daisuke was hardly a Tim Goebel.
I'm fairly convinced that if GPF had been scored under 6.0. Lambiel would have won the short, and Daisuke would have won the long and the competition. Sometimes things can't be done by math and you actually need to look at the problems as a whole and evaluate what the skaters did in relation to each other. However, I think that if they are going to raise the value of the quad etc, they need to insist on rules about hitting skaters hard for messy programs.
Maybe what they needed to do and I know it sounds unfair but find away to show the judges what PCS they can give to a skater to give them the win overall. So the judges can actually ask themselves does so and so deserve to win or does so and so. It may sound completely unfair, but I actually think it would be better for the sport.
Last edited by bekalc; 02-22-2010 at 05:27 PM.
The Ladies may turn out like the Men - one or more of the favorites will probably meltdown like Jeremy and Brian.
One of the good ones - probably Akiko will be overlooked unfairly like Johnny,
And one or two will probably get scores we don't understand - maybe Rachael.
I have no idea about Joannie - but I will hold my breath when she skates and my best thoughts are with her.
I am always surprised when fans only care about the Men - or only about the Ladies.
I don't really know the rules for Ice Dancing very well but I really like watching it.
V/M thrilled me with their Spanish program last night. .
seriously people should stop splitting hair.
This was a thing that started in vancouver.
and the pic is from plushenko's official fan forum, what did you expect, people made him a platinum look alike medal to make him feel better, unfortunately i missed it.Russian television originally presented him with his platinum medal, with RTR host Alexei Popov telling him, “You already have one gold and one silver so here’s a platinum medal for you… You are the real champion.”
They also have a banner, Plushenko-Heavenly Creature, will be there a scandal that he implies he is better than yuna??
Yahoo should go back to post Paris Hilton articles.
The point is to continue what they started even before the men's event - turning Plushenko into this KGB monster of a sorts. Works just fine due to the fact that the Russians are still considered to be third class mafia commie ebil monsters in many people's minds. Oh well ... what's new under the sun?
Some other quotes, Phillipe Candeloro and Brian Boitano
Philippe Candeloro of France, the 1994 and 1998 Olympic bronze medalist, said: “Evan did a very good job; all the jumps were clean. But my problem is, I didn’t see any quad. For me, it could be much better for the ice skating world if Plushenko can win. It would be more respectable. People who like skaters like warriors.”
Yet, Boitano and Candeloro thrived under the old 6-point scoring system. There is a new system in place now, one that values completeness over big tricks. Plushenko did not calibrate his Olympic program accordingly.
It may be thin consolation, but there is no small sympathy for Plushenko’s point of view about the quad. Boitano, who always viewed himself as an athletic skater, said, “I agree with him that figure skating needs to progress and get more technical.”
Also, Mr. Olavarrieta (an ISU technical caller) said that in his opinion, Evgeni should have won. In the video, both are in Spanish, he said that while he thought Evgeni had the advantage; then he talked about the PCS scores and he said that the problem is that the difference between them comes from a very subjective point, the appreciation of the program but he thinks Evgeni should have beaten Evan by more in the Performance mark
At the end he says "Gold, my Olympic Gold is for the mental strenght of Plushenko"
Last edited by Ximena; 02-22-2010 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Forgot to add Boitano's quote