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Thread: Plushenko & other Russians comment on the Men's Event

  1. #106
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alatariel View Post
    Original dance is tomorrow. Or have I lost it completely?
    It is? I peaked too soon! What am I going to do with all this popcorn?

  2. #107
    Worshipping at the temple of Severus Snape Alatariel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    It is? I peaked too soon! What am I going to do with all this popcorn?
    Share? If it's any consolation I promised myself I'd sleep early tonight so that I can watch tomorrow, am way tired from the last few sleepless nights. But 1AM already and eyes open wide. Gah. Olympics.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidwich View Post
    Um, I've danced tango, lots of Tango: International, American and Argentine. And no, tango does not have pelvic gyrations. Tango is by its nature a walking dance, and pelvic gyrations go against the nature of the dance.
    there are pelvic gyration in tango, especially when you are doing the cross body lead or the side lead. There is no dance with isolation of pelvis.

  4. #109
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    why have the thread been merged. I only commented on the Plushy interview on CTV and come back to find my comments mixed in with a bunch of very negative irrelevant comments. Why the merging?

  5. #110
    it's olympic season :D bethissoawesome's Avatar
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    Yet another reason I have so much resepct for the Japanese figure skating team... they seem to have so much more humility and gratitude than any other nation. I'm glad so many top skaters are coming from Japan now, and figure skating is now more of a "Japanese sport" than it is American or Russian. Hopefully that will relieve some of the USA/Russia tension in figure skating... while they have been so busy bickering, Japan has come up from the shadows to start dominating both the mens and womens fields.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by UM84 View Post
    It has always been none how hard Evan works.... and I think Scott repsects the sport to much to let SOI interfear with his judgement
    If you understand Scott's business interests in SOI, it's pretty obvious that he and Sandra have a clear favoritism for the skaters signed to SOI or that he's hoping to sign to SOI. I don't know if it's a conscious thing, but I've always found it pretty clear. Part of why Brian Boitano stopped doing commentary was because of the conflict of interest issues involved, and I've always thought that it took a lot of integrity for him to give up what I'm sure is a cushy, lucrative gig.

    I think Plushenko has a great sense of humor and I think there was a part of him that enjoyed playing NBC's mustache-twirling (or mullet-tossing) villain for all that it's worth and never took it that seriously. I think there's also a very large part of figure skating that is head games between the competitors, and I don't doubt that Plushenko was tossing off quads in practice as much for the intimidation factor as anything and I think that's a legitimate part of the sport and one that's played by many, many of the competitors from all different countries.

    That being said, Plushenko and Co. are obviously very disappointed right now. Obviously, Plushenko and Co. planned on Plushenko being Plushenko and that being enouh to win and it wasn't under the current system. The choreography wasn't COP-friendly at all, and I don't think that they understood the implications of that from a points perspective. To an extent, it reminded me of Michelle Kwan's struggles to adjust to COP after having trained under the 6.0 all her life. Her programs just couldn't rack up points because it wasn't what she was used to and what she was so very, very good at.

  7. #112
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jan View Post
    why have the thread been merged. I only commented on the Plushy interview on CTV and come back to find my comments mixed in with a bunch of very negative irrelevant comments. Why the merging?
    We had so many threads devoted to the "I hate Lysacek, I hate Plushenko more" wars, that we had to merge them into two combined threads so that the dance threads wouldn't be forced off the front page.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastasi1212 View Post
    there are pelvic gyration in tango, especially when you are doing the cross body lead or the side lead. There is no dance with isolation of pelvis.
    Are you sure you are thinking of Tango? Cross body lead is something that is usually performed in Latin and American Rhythm dances like salsa and mambo, but it's not performed at all in International or Argentine Tango, and I'm struggling to think of when it could be performed in American Tango. Even in Latin and Rhythm, even though there is hip movement, I'd be hard-pressed to call it a "gyration."

  9. #114
    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidwich View Post
    Are you sure you are thinking of Tango? Cross body lead is something that is usually performed in Latin and American Rhythm dances like salsa and mambo, but it's not performed at all in International or Argentine Tango, and I'm struggling to think of when it could be performed in American Tango. Even in Latin and Rhythm, even though there is hip movement, I'd be hard-pressed to call it a "gyration."
    Most of Plusneko's movement was indeed more suited to a latin dance like a Cha-Cha than a tango. No blowing kisses much in tango either. Granted, he did do a couple of pretend dance steps at one point but that does not make up for the painful edge quailty in his steps.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alatariel View Post
    It's what separates the men like Daisuke from the mediocre drones like Lysacek - Dai is a true champion (something Plushenko commented on as well) who went for being the best he could be, at the most risk filled moment, with an element that he knew he would most probably not succeed in doing. Now that is what a true champion does. This is what is truly disgusting in this sport today and not the nonsense some other posters are mentioning - mediocrity is never progress and yet it is being hailed!

    I think that Dai actually prefers his bronze than the gold he would have gotten by being a little wimp like Lysacek. It simply would not have been gold to him if earned that way.

    Some posters here just don't get it - it's not just about the victory it's the journey to that victory too. This is what separates the true masters of their craft who are remembered and those who just fade away. This is also why we sometimes remember those who lost while those who won are quickly erased.
    A significant part of sport is strategy. There are smart risks and stupid risks. If Dai's strategy was to use up one of his jumping passes on a jump he felt he would "most probably not succeed in doing", that seems like a pretty terrible strategy that results in a loss of points. Personally, I don't believe that was his strategy, I think he felt confident with his quad. I wish he had landed and had won the gold. Mediocrity is what I'd call Plushenko's choreography and interpretation, not Evan's win. A fall on a quad, while I greatly respect the attempt, is not worthy of gold either. Someone will come along (like Dai) who has phenomenal artistry and lands the big jumps, and this will force everyone else (like Chan) to step up their jumping game if they want to win. The way I see it, Evan won the gold by being smart, by having a good strategy.But you could look at is as Evan didn't "beat" Dai, Dai beat himself.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scout View Post
    A significant part of sport is strategy. There are smart risks and stupid risks. If Dai's strategy was to use up one of his jumping passes on a jump he felt he would "most probably not succeed in doing", that seems like a pretty terrible strategy that results in a loss of points. Personally, I don't believe that was his strategy, I think he felt confident with his quad. I wish he had landed and had won the gold. Mediocrity is what I'd call Plushenko's choreography and interpretation, not Evan's win. A fall on a quad, while I greatly respect the attempt, is not worthy of gold either. Someone will come along (like Dai) who has phenomenal artistry and lands the big jumps, and this will force everyone else (like Chan) to step up their jumping game if they want to win. The way I see it, Evan won the gold by being smart, by having a good strategy.But you could look at is as Evan didn't "beat" Dai, Dai beat himself.
    Daisuke would not of been satisfied without trying his quad. His practise reports stated that his quad was definitely not consistent. I don't think he cares about the loss of points on the quad or about the "terrible strategy". If he tried his quad regardless of landing or falling, he can say he tried his best. Sure Evan skated smart and had a good strategy, but in reality his skating was safe. I prefer to see skaters who take risks where it is not only about getting points.

  12. #117
    Worshipping at the temple of Severus Snape Alatariel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scout View Post
    A significant part of sport is strategy. There are smart risks and stupid risks. If Dai's strategy was to use up one of his jumping passes on a jump he felt he would "most probably not succeed in doing", that seems like a pretty terrible strategy that results in a loss of points. Personally, I don't believe that was his strategy, I think he felt confident with his quad. I wish he had landed and had won the gold. Mediocrity is what I'd call Plushenko's choreography and interpretation, not Evan's win. A fall on a quad, while I greatly respect the attempt, is not worthy of gold either. Someone will come along (like Dai) who has phenomenal artistry and lands the big jumps, and this will force everyone else (like Chan) to step up their jumping game if they want to win. The way I see it, Evan won the gold by being smart, by having a good strategy.But you could look at is as Evan didn't "beat" Dai, Dai beat himself.
    Sigh. Why is this so hard for some people to understand.

    It's not about strategy. Dai himself said why he is doing the quad. Do you even understand what he is trying to say with that? Nobody is saying that falling on a quad deserves a gold medal but it seems like you and a few others are so brainwashed when it comes to winning you are incapable of understanding a different concept even when it is explained to you step by step. It's not about winning only. It's about winning in a worthy manner. He didn't care about strategy. He cared about feeling like a worthy champion. That is worth ten gold Olympic medals that people like the drone may get.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alatariel View Post
    Sigh. Why is this so hard for some people to understand.

    It's not about strategy. Dai himself said why he is doing the quad. Do you even understand what he is trying to say with that? Nobody is saying that falling on a quad deserves a gold medal but it seems like ... It's about winning in a worthy manner. He didn't care about strategy. He cared about feeling like a worthy champion. That is worth ten gold Olympic medals that people like the drone may get.


    You know, all this talk about Evan and Evgeni makes me wonder what Evgeni would say if Daisuke had landed the quad nicely and won.

  14. #119
    Worshipping at the temple of Severus Snape Alatariel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post

    You know, all this talk about Evan and Evgeni makes me wonder what Evgeni would say if Daisuke had landed the quad nicely and won.
    I honestly don't think he would have had a problem with it. He did say what he thought of Dai after the LPs and I think it would have stayed the same if he lost to him with maybe even more respect.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    You know, all this talk about Evan and Evgeni makes me wonder what Evgeni would say if Daisuke had landed the quad nicely and won.
    I don't think he would have though, considering his score. Dai's FS score was 10+ points off of Evan's score and a 4t is worth 9.8 right? And he didn't lose a full 10 points for falling on it so I think had he been clean Evan still would have won, right?

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