Plushenko & other Russians comment on the Men's Event | Page 8 | Golden Skate

Plushenko & other Russians comment on the Men's Event

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
So I heard Plushenko wants to compete at Sochi 2014, but will he compete at Worlds next month or internationally next year? And what about Lambiel, done for good?
 

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Flip or not, it doesn't matter. No body cares flip, everyone talks about quad. Triple flip is just another triple jump. Quad is a jump on the next level. The judges inflated Lysacek's SP score, even inflated Takahashi's SP score. As a result, it created this narrow difference in the total scores. I agree that Plushenko didn't do enough in LP, but Lysacek should not be a champion as the result. He could just win the LP. I think everyone could accept that.
 

qazwsx

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Takahashi actually earned the highest PCS of the night in the LP with 84.50 and Lambiel was second highest with 83.60. Had Dai played it safe like Evan, he would be Olympic champion. Daisuke has got to be kicking himself in the aftermath of it all. Why did he have to try that quad . . . it ruined everything for him.
Finally someone thought of the same thing!! I was so frustrated with his decision to go the quad, but now I realized he probably had no choice from his culture stand point. Remember miki ando desperately wanted to do 3-3 because she couldn't take the pressure from Japanese media/people? which made morozov furious and he eventually stopped her by threatening to break up... I bet Dai faced tremendous pressure from back home to perform the quad. skating in Asia is popular but still fairly new, people tend to put a lot of emphasis on jumps since that's the most exciting and obvious move.
 

formersk8ter

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 3, 2009
I love how Plushy, with his joke of a program including hip gyrations and "oooohh, aren't I so hot and sexy" (looking like a bad imitation of a pole dancer in the process), complains that Evan's skate isn't masculine enough, due to the lack of a quad...

Plush, I love you and applaud your 4-3, but that program was frankly an insult to the Olympics.
 

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
I bet Dai faced tremendous pressure from back home to perform the quad. skating in Asia is popular but still fairly new, people tend to put a lot of emphasis on jumps since that's the most exciting and obvious move.

I don't think so. I think it was his own heroic act.
 

UM84

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
I love how Plushy, with his joke of a program including hip gyrations and "oooohh, aren't I so hot and sexy" (looking like a bad imitation of a pole dancer in the process), complains that Evan's skate isn't masculine enough, due to the lack of a quad...

Plush, I love you and applaud your 4-3, but that program was frankly an insult to the Olympics.

Good point, people fail to remember his program was not good
 

Scout

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Flip or not, it doesn't matter. No body cares flip, everyone talks about quad. Triple flip is just another triple jump. Quad is a jump on the next level. The judges inflated Lysacek's SP score, even inflated Takahashi's SP score. As a result, it created this narrow difference in the total scores. I agree that Plushenko didn't do enough in LP, but Lysacek should not be a champion as the result. He could just win the LP. I think everyone could accept that.

I think the "I think everyone could accept that." is quite naive. Evan fans, and all those who don't like the lack of presentation in Plushenko's programs would be....unhappy.
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
He also had no real choice because Plushy skated last and though no-one knew what he would do, ..there was a lot of talk about 2 quads, 4/3 combos . Dai knew what was in his own program and if P. lived up to projections he knew he would need it.
 

aftertherain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Finally someone thought of the same thing!! I was so frustrated with his decision to go the quad, but now I realized he probably had no choice from his culture stand point. Remember miki ando desperately wanted to do 3-3 because she couldn't take the pressure from Japanese media/people? which made morozov furious and he eventually stopped her by threatening to break up... I bet Dai faced tremendous pressure from back home to perform the quad. skating in Asia is popular but still fairly new, people tend to put a lot of emphasis on jumps since that's the most exciting and obvious move.

"Go big or go home."

While culture could have played a part in his attempt, I believe "Go big or go home" was his sentiment.

It's not so much about winning a medal. It's more of feeling worthy of winning a medal, in his case. I think that he thought that if he hadn't at least attempted a quad, he wouldn't feel right with a medal.
 
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ademption

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
I've been looking at both of Daisuke's programs at NBC Olympics. I watch an element and then look at the score it received. Daisuke lost a lot of potential points by wobbling on his spins in both the short and long programs. Some of his spins also traveled a bit. I noticed in previous competitions on the circuit this year the same problem. I hope he can fix that before World's next month.

I do find it curious that Takahashi received a 1.80 GOE for his 3 lutz in the short, but in the long only received -.6 for his triple lutz and triple lutz combo. Could his technique on the triple lutz have changed so drastically from the short to the long? Unfortunately, I haven't found a slow-motion video that shows a closeup of Dai entering the triple lutz so I don't think I can make an informed guess. Just seems odd to me that a different judging panel would see that jump so differently when I would assume that Dai entered the Lutz jump in the same manner in both the short and the long.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
I wish you guys wouldn't drag Sarah's name into all this, seriously, she's one of my all-time favorites, along with Sonja Henie & Oksana Baiul. Always has been. Her Olympic Free Skate is my favorite of all-time, bar none, that truly was one for the ages ~ magic, pure magic out there on that special night, like a fairy, the hardest Olympic routine ever done by a lady figure skater ~ she deserved it!:love:

But in all honesty whom remembers every single Olympic Champion? I know I don't. Lol, I once took this internet quiz on the 'net this past year, it gave you a certain amount of time to name ALL the Olympic Champions, both male & female, and I lost big time! Lol, seriously, I think I scored around a 60 or 70, something like that.:laugh:

Off the top of my head it went & goes like this:

Sonja Henie (of course)
Dick Button (of course)
Gillis Graftstrom (actually had to look his name up this past weekend, lol)
Karl Schaefer (tied with Dick)
Ulrich Salchow (only remember him b/c of the famous move, lol)
Barbara Ann Scott (know her name b/c she's the only one to have won gold from her country in singles)
Tenley Albright (1st American woman to do so, duh)
Carol Ann Heiss (American)
Peggy Fleming (ditto)
Dorothy Hamill (ditto, my fav of all the Americans as well, lol)
Kristi Yamaguchi (American)
Tara Lipinski (ditto)
Sarah Hughes (one of my all-time favs)
Oksana Baiul (ditto)
Trixie Schuba (unfortunately I remember her b/c of the figures)
Katarina Witt (come on, she's 2nd to Sonja, how can anybody forget, duh)
Arakawa (1st Japanese woman to do so)
Jenkins Bros. (sorry, I just remember that two brothers won one apiece during the 1960's; one is married to Carol Ann Heiss)
John Curry (ah, how can anybody forget!)
Robin Cousins (nice guy)
Scott Hamilton (hmm, think I'll remember silent for now, lol)
Brian Boitano (very nice guy with tons of difficulty!)
Viktor Petrenko (1st Russian to do so, I think?)
Alexei Urmanov (lol, after such a long time of forgetting his name I remembered!)
Ilia Kulik (married to Katia Gordeeva)
Alexei Yagudin (same thing applies to my comments as regards Alexei Urmanov)
Evgeni Plushenko (greatest of all time, and I've been there every wonderful second along the way, since the beginning, does my heart good!) :love:

That's it, I honestly don't remember the others from the early years, nor some even later on, sorry guys. *sad*

And I wonder how many I will remember 20 yrs. from now besides The Immortals & my all-time favorites & the Americans, etc.:think:
 

Alatariel

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
How can anyone forget Sarah - when you mention her so often :laugh:

What's with that? Are you on the Hughes family payroll ;)

Blame the Russians. They dug her up in order to explain a few things. I had no idea who she was ... and yet I remember being mightily p off that year due to that boost. I'll forget her again as soon as the Olympics are over until another journo digs up her name again when it's time to 'remember' those who won yet were completely forgettable, oh and got their wins by other means too.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Why are we so worried about how someone will be remembered ages hence?

Lysacek skated great and won the top prize in this competition. Yay!

This does not diminish the esteem in which Pklushenko's accomplishments are held.

Sarah Hughes will always have a golden memory to cherish -- even if Michelle and Irina decide one day to break into her house and steal her medal. :)
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Blame the Russians. They dug her up in order to explain a few things. I had no idea who she was ... and yet I remember being mightily p off that year due to that boost. I'll forget her again as soon as the Olympics are over until another journo digs up her name again when it's time to 'remember' those who won yet were completely forgettable, oh and got their wins by other means too.

I will never forget Sarah's SLC LP.
What a magical Olympic moment it was and if Sarah was never my favorite skater her LP that night was far and away my favorite.

Here it is just for your enjoyment. Watch it and maybe you will learn something about seizing the moment and making a dream come true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2KY...D73490F79&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=9

You seem to admire Dai so much for attempting a quad. Maybe you forgot that Sarah was the only Lady to try two 3x3's that night.

You admire Dai but knock Sarah. I guess you can never forgive her for winning.
 

dlgpffps

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Lysacek skated great and won the top prize in this competition. Yay!
This does not diminish the esteem in which Pklushenko's accomplishments are held.
Sarah Hughes will always have a golden memory to cherish -- even if Michelle and Irina decide one day to break into her house and steal her medal. :)

That is my secret naughty wish ;)

I hate all the abuse Plushy's getting. It's as though people have forgotten how great of a skater Plushenko was in his prime (I can't believe some will go so far as to crown Lysacek the better skater. C'mon) and the dispute has been blown out of proportion to tarnish Plushenko's skating. Mishin's pretty bad, but when you get down to it, Plushenko has never said anything as outrageous as NBC would like you to believe. He's entitled to his opinions, isn't he? Why can't he express them, as long as he toes the line? He has never bashed Evan as a person. His complaints are in essence about the system itself. He thinks the CoP is flawed, the gold medalist should have a quad and that his performance would've been good enough under 6.0. Is that really enough to garner so much hate?
 

BigJohn

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Why are we so worried about how someone will be remembered ages hence?

The Plushenko supporters seem to think that this is some sort of an argument.

The debate: Who really won.

The issue: Plushenko did a quad but that was not enough points to win overall even with PC scores boosted in favor of Plushenko. That is not fair...

What really happened: Plushenko did not skate well and his program was not designed for the new system of judging. The Russian PM declared him the true winner.

The Chewbacca defense: Plushenko will be remembered more than Lysacek... so... he should have won gold that nigh?
(this is where this whole shaky argument loses all credibility and fall into twilight zone territory.)
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Flip or not, it doesn't matter. No body cares flip, everyone talks about quad. Triple flip is just another triple jump. Quad is a jump on the next level. The judges inflated Lysacek's SP score, even inflated Takahashi's SP score. As a result, it created this narrow difference in the total scores. I agree that Plushenko didn't do enough in LP, but Lysacek should not be a champion as the result. He could just win the LP. I think everyone could accept that.

To me, this is quite hilarious and the most succinct statement that illustrates what's wrong with the "quad is king" viewpoint.

1) How were Takahashi and Lysacek overscored in the short? They both had a lower base value by about four points compared to Plushenko, and scored 8.3 and 8.1 on GOES (compared to Plushenko's 7). This is pretty fair, imo - both have stronger spins and footwork than Plushenko (Plushenko got 4.0 GOE on his jumps, as did Takahashi; Lysacek got 3.4). Plushenko got positive GOES for his spins, and that's fair given how they mark the spins (though they're not the most attractive in the world). And in PCS - well, both should've routed Plushenko there. Plushenko pretty much matched them for Performance/Execution and Skating Skills (also fair), but lost to them on transitions, interpretation and choreography (and arguably should've lost by more). Basically, the advatange earned by one element was nearly balanced by the disadvantage he had on three of the five PCS and four elements. Where would you have dropped points, to whom, and by how much?

2) "Flip or no flip" - to me, this renders your argument a little weaker. You're arguing for technical diffculty and risk taking, right? Well, a triple flip as the last jump is more technically difficult and a higher risk than a double axel, right? No, it's not a quad, but if Plushenko's and/or his fans are gonna portray him(self) as the guy with the most technical difficultly in the jumps, than it's something that should be discussed. We're yelling at the women for not having a full set of triples (minus the axel), but we want it to be okay for a gold medalist men to be missing one (the same thing with Lambiel and his triple axel, except he loses a bucketload more points)? Does that make sense to you?

3)... but the quad. Oy vey, the quad. The impression I've been getting from you, from Alatriel, from watchvancouver, is that there's only one way to be come a memorable men's champion, and that's the quad. Doesn't matter what you're lacking (see your "flip or no flip" comment), as long as you have the quad, that's the true road to a masculine championship and not to being a "talentless drone." (Note: no one competing in the Olympic Games is a talentless drone, and you make yourself look stupid, Alatriel, by suggesting otherwise). The quad should probably be worth more, but the unearned bonus you get in terms of higher PCS more than compensates for it.

4) Doesn't quality itself matter? Plushenko didn't have his best jumps in the free program. He didn't have the best jumps period. Should he get bonus points for essentially landing upright despite the fight (which indicates that the jumps themselves aren't the highest quality?

5) I think the kicker truly is that Lysacek isn't the complete skater we want. The N. American media is trying desperately to portray it as a battle between quality vs the quad, and while they have a true member of the latter category, they don't the former. And that's an issue. The fact is, Evan doesn't have the musicality, choreography, or the pure skating skills of a clean Takahashi, Lambiel or Chan (yes, I said Chan). You notice how many people praise his work ethic above all else? It's almost a backhanded compliment at this point (no, he doesn't have the pure natural talent of some of the best, but he's worked so much harder to get to where he is now). But he clearly has a strong work ethic, drive to be the best, and a great team who worked to help him win gold. Is it a victory I love? Nope - watching the youtube videos of Yagudin and Kulik makes me wish I had a stronger understanding of figure skating then so I could cherish their victories more. Do I wish that Lambiel/Takahashi/Chan/Abbott/Verner/Oda etc had skated better and perhaps podiumed like they have the talent for (in Takahashi's case, outright victory)? Yep. My nightmare podium was Plushenko-Joubert-Lysacek, so this really isn't that much better, but I'll take it.
 
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