Well, I meant if he won with a clean quad and had a better program. I guess I didn't make it clear in my post. Oops!Originally Posted by silverlake22
Well, I meant if he won with a clean quad and had a better program. I guess I didn't make it clear in my post. Oops!
That's what I respect about him the most. I guess if Takahashi won, or Lysacek won with a quad in LP, Plushenko will be gladly bowed away.
Takahashi's quad was downgraded to a triple, plus he fell, so he received zero points for that jumping pass . . . look at the protocol. Had he landed a clean quad, there's no doubt in my mind at all that he'd be Olympic champion.
In fact, if you look at the protocol of what Dai had planned and add back the points he would have had for a clean skate, he would have beaten Lysacek by a good amount of points. Mind you, he received negative GOE on 2 other jumping passes besides the quad and his 3flip+3toe combo was downgraded to a 3flip+2toe. It's like I said all along, a clean Daisuke will always beat a clean Evan in the LP when you look at their planned elements and compare Takahashi's exquisite quality with Lysacek's lackluster quality.
Last edited by museksk8r; 02-20-2010 at 09:13 PM.
Oh okay, I thought he got credit for the full rotation. In that case if he had been clean and won, I don't think Plushy would have been mad because the winner would have done a quad.
Since when do skaters need Plushy's approval for their jump content?
Who the hell is he? A judge, or the head of ISU?
He used to be the king and now he is reduced to acting like a small child
He used to be the king and now he is reduced to acting like a small childDon't be fooled by this result . . . comparing their records, 3-time Olympic medalist (1 gold, 2 silver) and 3-time World Champion Evgeni is still the king in comparison to 1 Olympic medal (gold) and 1-time World Champion Lysacek.
Plushy does not show the behavior of a great champion. He behaves like a small child who lost his toy.
I know the difference even if you don't.
And if Plushy is as great as you claim - then it is obvious that Evan is pretty good too for defeating him. And that is what Evan has done. He took Plushy's Gold medal and his dignity from him and has left him crying like a small child.
Atleast Joubert loses like a man and puts the blame on himself.
I think Plushy has tarnished his reputation and will be remembered now for how he lost.
Perhaps some of this is Mishin's fault because he has made some very stupid comments and has ordered an investigation.
The probelem is no one listens to mishin because he acts like a fool and not a famous coach.
No investigation just whining from the poor losers.
Sorry for harsh words but that's the way it is and like Evan I am disappointed by such childish behavior.
Lysacek will never be remembered in this sport years from now the way that the dominant Plushenko will be remembered. Lysacek is milking the public sympathy for all its worth . . . he should seriously consider a career in politics. He has the art of public deception mastered. He's not hurting from Plushy's reaction; I'd better guess he's laughing his way straight to the bank.
Last edited by museksk8r; 02-20-2010 at 10:02 PM.
The bottom line for me is that, per the current rules, the Quad gets you around 5 extra points above the lowest triple (toe), and 3 extra points above the highest (lutz). Plushy and his team knew this coming in. Evan gained 3+ points by backloading his program (duh) and 1.5 points with an extra DOUBLE TOE. It came down to GOEs, and Evan had more difficult entrances to his jumps while Plushy had some shaky landings. That's it. Done.
Now whether or not 5 points only is a fair advantage for the Quad is a different story. The rules are the rules and Plushy and his team can read and count. If you don't like the rules, try to change them (not an option now, maybe something can be done now for the future) or don't play.
And being a sore loser is not helping!!
PS I have a lot of respect for Plushy's monstrous accomplishement, but all this bad sportsmanship is starting to eat at it.
I'm disappointed by you, janetfan, because you act like that young Canadian lady that was sitting in front of me at the Pacific Coliseum on Thursday, 2/18/10, for the Mens Final in Figure Skating.
Btw, I honestly do think that Evan Lysacek won fair & square, he was magnificent, and that is no exaggeration. I was there, I saw it with my own two eyes. And I also saw Evgeni Plushenko, whom was equally great, but alas the difference between these two IMHO came down to the program itself. Evan's program was better, by far, in my humble honest opinion.
That said, it was one for the ages, the type of competition that I like to see. Evan won against the greatest male figure skater of all time, and that's something he'll remember for as long as he lives (similar to Sarah Hughes victory against Michelle Kwan at the 2002 Olympics). To win skating your best against the greatest skater of all time means that much more!
Evgeni is called the KING, and Michelle is called the KWEEN for a reason, a very good reason. Their respective accomplishments & longevity in the sport we all love is unprecedented. To win against either one is rare (this is Evgeni's 3rd loss in 8 yrs.!) & something that the winner will remember for a lifetime! CONGRATULATIONS, EVAN!
Not at all, I am simply commenting on the facts. Evan won. Plushy lost. Evan has acted graciously so far and Plushy and Mishin have shown exceptionally bad sportsmanship.
Laugh your silly head off. I don't mind if you want to act like Plushy and Mishin.
Oh, was that supposed to hurt my feelings? Massive fail on your part!
Part of my problem may have been that I didn't read or see the interview in which Dai mentioned his reasons for putting in the quad. I was simply giving my input in response to your post and your comment about putting in a jump that would probably be unsuccessful. In that regard, I lacked background info, and I apologize. I do greatly respect all those who attempt the quad, whether successful or not. However, I am someone who
1) did not want either Lysacek or Plushenko win
2) does not enjoy Evan's performances
3) would have loved to see Dai win
4) am a fan of the quad, and enjoy seeing it attempted
However, you talk about the journey to victory, and being a worthy champion. Why is Evan not a worthy champion? How is his journey mediocre or less fulfilling than Dai’s? It might not be the way you or Dai would want to win, but that doesn’t make it mediocre or less significant. It doesn’t diminish the value of the victory. Dai may feel like he needs the quad to be a worthy champion. Evan does not. There’s no right and wrong here. Each is entitles to their belief, and their program and actions reflect their beliefs. Evan can celebrate his gold, Daisuke his bronze.
If Dai would rather have a bronze with a fall on a quad, than a gold without a quad attempt – I can definitely respect that. But why can’t you understand that there are different ways to win, different paths to victory, different definitions of true masters of their craft that are all valid and respectable?
Evan will be remembered. Not by everybody. Not by me. Not by you, I would assume. But by a lot of people. A lot of people love and respect him and think he’s a brilliant skater. But you don’t have to trash him or his victory. Or me for that matter.
Last edited by Scout; 02-20-2010 at 10:24 PM.
Let's stick to the discussion and leave your "feelings" out of this.
Reading some of Mishin's comments today was surprising. He has been reduced to calling the judges names like "cyclops" and said there would be an investigation. More reading revealed the Russian Federation has asked for no such thing and an official conceded they didn't play the CoP game right.
There are opinions and there is reality. The reality is that Plushy may be the greater skater but he wasn't the night of the LP's.
For Mishin and Plushy to behave like the Gold medal belonged to them for just showing up is incredible to me.
Maybe at Euros where apparently many of the skaters do shake in their boots is one thing. But I saw little fear of Plushy from Evan, Dai, Johnny, and several others.
Johnny did not play the Cop game to the max even though he skated very well. Dai made a choice that I don't understand. I thought his skating was the best by far but I also read the reports and he was not landing the quad in practice. He looked happy to be on the podium and it is not for me to question his strategy.
Evan came to win a medal and was determined to skate hs best and see how the others would do. Since skating under CoP is supposed to be a sport with strategy I can't fault Evan or his team for playing the game so well and winning the OGM.
I can't say the same about plushy and his team as I think they blew it BIG TIME.
I will always remember how Evan won and how Plushy lost. You may forget about it by tomorrow but your persistent posts are very revealing. I doubt if you will forget this anytime soon.
Last edited by janetfan; 02-20-2010 at 10:28 PM.
FYI, Plushenko is above all. Even the judge of the judges Mr. Inman would listen to him. Where is Mr. Inman when we need him? He needs to send out e-mails to 60+ judges addressing the quad values because Plushenko said so.Since when do skaters need Plushy's approval for their jump content?
Who the hell is he? A judge, or the head of ISU?
He used to be the king and now he is reduced to acting like a small child
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