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Thread: Controversial judging in men's figure skating stirs up debate on quad jumps

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    Controversial judging in men's figure skating stirs up debate on quad jumps

    Note: I have merged all threads discussing the judging system into this thread. Doris P


    A compilation of some interesting articles on Evan's win, quads, and the direction of figure skating.

    DiManno: 'It's not figure skating'
    New rules send sport on bad trajectory, as skaters in cahoots with clever choreographers avoid hard stuff

    http://olympics.thestar.com/2010/art...figure-skating

    It took a century for skaters to develop the athletic ability for a four-rotation jump. That came to separate the men from the boys, and now it apparently means squat. There's no payoff in taking a quad risk, pushing those boundaries, being an athlete. Now it's about polishing what you can do and skipping what you can't.
    Lysacek's Gold: Are Olympic Skaters Playing It Too Safe?
    http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...966649,00.html

    But one casualty of raising the technical precision of the sport is the spontaneity that makes sports exciting. Athletes at this level live on the edge of control and chaos, and it's the collective 'wow' of moments when they butt themselves up against that line that take our breath away and keep bringing us back to watch. "It's important for any sport to continue to raise the bar and move forward," Paul Wylie, 1992 silver medalist told me after the men's short programs. "I have to admit as a performer who did two triple axels in my program in Albertville, I am surprised that more guys aren't doing the quad."
    Regardless of where you weigh in on the debate, that's the thing that should be worrying skating officials and athletes alike — that the scoring system may be sucking out the drive and inspiration for innovating and evolving the sport that jumps like the quad represent. The stricter scrutiny that the system places on the execution of elements is biasing skaters to play it safe and skate programs that are constructed — move for move, from fingertip to toe point — with an almost passionless precision.
    The reality, however, is that the past two world champions earned their titles without a quad, and now, after three consecutive Olympic champions winning with programs that included a successfully landed quad, Lysacek has won without one. It's no coincidence that all of these titles were won under the new scoring system.
    I predict Chan will win the title next month by landing just one 3A in long program.

    Steve Milton's Olympic Notebook

    http://www.thespec.com/Sports/article/725201
    And Tatiana Tarasova, one of the most decorated skating coaches in history and daughter of the great Soviet hockey mentor Anatolie Tarasov, said to the same station that Lysacek's component scores -- equal to Plushenko's -- was "simply hooliganism."
    Tarasova has helped Lysacek with his training in the past.
    Scoring controversy in Men's Figure Skating
    http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/Sports/van.../12957091.html

    I think Mao Asada will likely benefit from this debate. Do you believe technical controller dares to downgrade Mao's two landed 3As in the free skate? Do you believe judges dare not to handle her the title if Mao lands two 3As and even if Yu Na skates clean? Imagine the outrage...
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 02-20-2010 at 11:32 PM.

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    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    I think Mao Asada will likely benefit from this debate. Do you believe technical controller dares to downgrade Mao's two landed 3As in the free skate? Do you believe judges dare not to handle her the title if Mao lands two 3As and even if Yu Na skates clean? Imagine the outrage...
    Mao though has no 3lutz, and no 3/3s. So its not the same. Although her 3axel SHOULD be worth more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Mao though has no 3lutz, and no 3/3s. So its not the same. Although her 3axel SHOULD be worth more.
    Mao does have 3lutz, it's just the stupid edge call. Mao can land 3+3loop, it's the unreasonable UR calls preventing her from doing it.

    Queen is a lipper. Queen has no 3loop, and it's an outrage a so-called world champion does 3 2As in a long program!!

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    I think the judging has regressed back to figures age where jumps are weighed less and other smaller things like edging and transitions count for more. But jumps are really the highlight of figure skating so I think skaters who do really hard jumps should be rewarded more. Joannie is the only lady who does all the basic jumps so having all the jumps doesn't seem to matter much under new system either. The 3-3 is also rare now. Only two women are doing them consistently (Rachel and Yuna).

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    Quote Originally Posted by watchvancouver View Post
    Mao does have 3lutz, it's just the stupid edge call. Mao can land 3+3loop, it's the unreasonable UR calls preventing her from doing it.
    I know you weren't trying to make a joke, but...

    She can do a Lutz, it's just that she does it from an inside edge?

    She can do a triple loop, it's just that she doesn't get three revolutions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I know you weren't trying to make a joke, but...

    She can do a Lutz, it's just that she does it from an inside edge?

    She can do a triple loop, it's just that she doesn't get three revolutions?

    haha lol well said

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    Ya'll just need to ignore it. aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I know you weren't trying to make a joke, but...

    She can do a Lutz, it's just that she does it from an inside edge?

    She can do a triple loop, it's just that she doesn't get three revolutions?
    Funniest comment I've read all day.

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    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I know you weren't trying to make a joke, but...

    She can do a Lutz, it's just that she does it from an inside edge?

    She can do a triple loop, it's just that she doesn't get three revolutions?
    Well, this sounds like the pot calls the kettle black.
    It's not very kind or fair to say so when you know that she has been correcting the edge. It got ratified sometimes and got ! or popped into single at other times.
    Re subtle URs that get called and punished severely, it's not the system that deserves all the blames but I wouldn't put all the blame to skaters, either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Well, this sounds like the pot calls the kettle black.
    It's not very kind or fair to say so when you know that she has been correcting the edge. It got ratified sometimes and got ! or popped into single at other times.
    Re subtle URs that get called and punished severely, it's not the system that deserves all the blames but I wouldn't put all the blame to skaters, either.
    Thank you so much Bennett! I also think the criticism is unfair to Mao when she has been correcting the edge for a long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    Well, this sounds like the pot calls the kettle black.
    It's not very kind or fair to say so when you know that she has been correcting the edge.
    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Thank you so much Bennett! I also think the criticism is unfair to Mao when she has been correcting the edge for a long time.
    Whoa, sorry! I wasn't criticizing Mao, I was responding to the unintended humor in the first paragraph of post number three on this thread.

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    Vancouver 2010, 247.23, Bronze
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    Wonder why is this thread titled
    Controversial judging in men's figure skating stirs up debate on quad jumps.
    Very misguiding.

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    Finally the answer: The IJS is being replaced with the PJS

    Under the new PJS (Plushenko Judging System) the quad is worth 150 points.

    Now Evgeni can come out and do two quads and then sit on the ice for the other 4 minutes. The enemies will be so scared that will be shaking in their skating boots and will not be able to skate. They will all run back to their countries and Evgeni can have all three medals.

    What a victory for figure skating as a sport.

    The truth is everyone at work knows of my daughter's passion for figure skating and I am now a bit embarrassed to be associated with the sport. I will have to explain that his attitude is not typical of most figure skaters.

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    Your thread is, to use Janetfan's words, so childish and rediculous.

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    Sounds like a great scoring system for Tomas Verner too just what he needs to get back on top of things

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