An important lesson for skaters, know the rules. | Golden Skate

An important lesson for skaters, know the rules.

gfskater

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
If you are, or your child is, a competitive skater you should have learned one thing from the past few days.

Make sure the coach knows how to create a program that will score points under IJS. I don't mean just pick the elements that will get the most points, rather pick the highest scoring elements that you can do well and place them in the correct spot in the program.

It is OK to take risks with high level jumps, but make sure you can land them when it counts. It makes sense to put a lot of the difficult jumps after the halfway mark but make sure you have the endurance to pull them off.

Don't assume your coach knows what makes a step sequence level 4, or a spin level 4. You may need to learn the IJS yourself.

I don't think IJS is the best possible system but it is the system in place and if you want to win, you (or your coach) should know it well. Like a football team knows the playbook.

As I watched the snowboard half pipe competition I was amazed that there were more than a few "new elements" like a double cork screw and a McFilipy Dee or whatever it was called. I thought to myself "could this happen under IJS". I am not sure a skater would get credit for a completely new jump, something that has never been done before. They would get zero points right?

This system may be restrictive but these are the current rules of the sport and if you are a skater you should know the IJS system, live it, breathe it, and work it, if you want to win. If you are a senior level international skater/coach there is no excuse for not knowing how to skate under the rules of your sport.

Some hockey players don't like the "icing" rule but they sure know what it is and how it works.
 
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yunasashafan

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
If you are, or your child is, a competitive skater you should have learned one thing from the past few days.

Make sure the coach knows how to create a program that will score points under IJS. I don't mean just pick the elements that will get the most points, rather pick the highest scoring elements that you can do well and place them in the correct spot in the program.

It is OK to take risks with high level jumps, but make sure you can land them when it counts. It makes sense to put a lot of the difficult jumps after the halfway mark but make sure you have the endurance to pull them off.

Don't assume your coach knows what makes a step sequence level 4, or a spin level 4. You may need to learn the IJS yourself.

I don't think IJS is the best possible system but it is the system in place and if you want to win, you (or your coach) should know it well. Like a football team knows the playbook.

As I watched the snowboard half pipe competition I was amazed that there were more than a few "new elements" like a double cork screw and a McFilipy Dee or whatever it was called. I thought to myself "could this happen under IJS". I am not sure a skater would get credit for a completely new jump, something that has never been done before. They would get zero points right?

This system may be restrictive but these are the current rules of the sport and if you are a skater you should know the IJS system, live it, breathe it, and work it, if you want to win. If you are a senior level international skater/coach there is no excuse for not knowing how to skate under the rules of your sport.

Some hockey players don't like the "icing" rule but they sure know what it is and how it works.

Amen to that. The rules are the rules... there is a time and place to fight and challenge the system, and it's not at the biggest competition of an amateur skater's career
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
The biggest lesson I learned from the mens' event is that Daisuke Takahashi would be the 2010 Olympic champion if he had landed his opening quad jump in the LP.
 

yunasashafan

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
The biggest lesson I learned from the mens' event is that Daisuke Takahashi would be the 2010 Olympic champion if he had landed his opening quad jump in the LP.

Now that would have been an amazing result...

PS: OT but why are the quotes coming out funny?
 

gfskater

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 4, 2009

gfskater

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
The biggest lesson I learned from the mens' event is that Daisuke Takahashi would be the 2010 Olympic champion if he had landed his opening quad jump in the LP.

That is a big if and a big gamble. I learned that if you miss you get 1 point with a 1 point deduction = zero points. As I said, make sure you can land it consistently and when the pressure is on. There is no greater source pressure than the Olympic Freeskate for figure skaters. Jeremy Abbot taught us that when he opened with a single axel.

Takahashi certainly does have superior skills, shame he did not land it.
 
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Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
That's very unlikely to have happened though. Considering his practice reports, it was totally against the following rule:
It is OK to take risks with high level jumps, but make sure you can land them when it counts.

He was also lucky not to get an UR call for the 3-3 in SP. I believe that he had the potential to have become a deserving Olympic Champion if he had been at his top form, but he got injured and his LP has never been clean this season. I think it really wonderful and fortunate that he won the Bronze and a World Champ next season seems to be more realistic.
 

yangjie

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
but i think we need to chenge some rules about the quads.
i know under the ISJ all-around skaters are loved.

but landing quads are as difficult as having a lot of transitions.

so we need to change the rules so that quads are as loved as transitions are.
 

Kinga

Medalist
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
but landing quads are as difficult as having a lot of transitions.

so we need to change the rules so that quads are as loved as transitions are.
the problem is, that transitions are not loved. Or they are, but just in theory. Some programs full of transistions never get credit for that. Whereas, if you land a fullly rotated quad, you can be sure that you get your points.
 

gfskater

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
but i think we need to chenge some rules about the quads.
i know under the ISJ all-around skaters are loved.

but landing quads are as difficult as having a lot of transitions.

so we need to change the rules so that quads are as loved as transitions are.

I think it is the other way around!

On average skaters with great transition get 7-8 points for 4.5 min of transitions.
A just OK 4T is worh 9.8 points and a good 4T is worth 12.8 points.

For the 4T-3T Plushy got 14.60 points. He was rewarded for his effort

Now ther are 11 other possible jumps which is where Evan won. Even did not win because of transition! Both men had the exact same PCS 82.80

So I would say the while Evgeni was rewarded for his 4T Evan was not rewarded for his good transitions!
 

Alatariel

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
And then there are people who know what the rules are but have higher standards when it comes to what an Olympic champion should do in order to become one. So win or not, they have the spirit of the true champion and are remembered in years to come. One - Dai T.

Or there are people who are talentless drones that work the system and the rules and actually win and are soon forgotten. One - Evan L.

There's playing by the rules and there's saying .... the winning by numbers, though I can win and let's do it how it should be done.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
There are skaters who believe the 180 degree Spiral with ballet-like arms for the Ladies and Quads for the Men are what figure skating is all about. Not so, if one reads the Rules of Competition, and I might add, the History of Figure Skating. Is it a Sport or an Audition?
 

Alatariel

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
There are skaters who believe the 180 degree Spiral with ballet-like arms for the Ladies and Quads for the Men are what figure skating is all about. Not so, if one reads the Rules of Competition, and I might add, the History of Figure Skating. Is it a Sport or an Audition?

Blah blah blah.

Dai could have easily won the OGM. Easily. If he had landed that quad he would have been even more pumped and it would have been an easy win. If he skated a clean program without the quad he still would have won easily over the drone. His PCS were the highest too. So be sure he knows the sacrosanct Rules of Competition quite well.

He did the quad because he feels to be a worthy Champion of the Olympic Games should at least try one. True champion in all ways. Unlike the talentless drone. But it may as well be a culture difference - some people celebrate even losses when they are honourable, some celebrate wins even when they are dishonourable.
 

pengdequan

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
He did it not because he feels to be a worthy Champion of the Olympic Games should at least try one.It was because he didn't want to waste his effort for training that quad.He trained it,so he did it.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Blah blah blah.

Dai could have easily won the OGM. Easily. If he had landed that quad he would have been even more pumped and it would have been an easy win. If he skated a clean program without the quad he still would have won easily over the drone. His PCS were the highest too. So be sure he knows the sacrosanct Rules of Competition quite well.

He did the quad because he feels to be a worthy Champion of the Olympic Games should at least try one. True champion in all ways. Unlike the talentless drone. But it may as well be a culture difference - some people celebrate even losses when they are honourable, some celebrate wins even when they are dishonourable.

blah, blay blah and phooey on your same old opinions. Let's have some facts for once. You talk like you know Dai and are his best friend. What baloney and we have all read the same interviews.

You keep saying the same thing over and over and your opinions do not become more believeable just because you state them a few hundred times.

Here is a fact for you. Maybe you better sit down first since it might shock you.
Dai is the Olympic bronze medalist. Quite an accomplishment.

Evan is and always will the the 2010 Olympic champion. No amount of your whining and delusional opinions will ever change that.

Now please don't forget to knock Sarah in your reply. The girl you claim has been forgotten who magically appears in so many of your posts here. :laugh:

Get a grip already. There will be new controversies soon and they might actually be worth discussing.
For the Men - Evan won, Plushy came second, and Dai finished third.

Those are the facts.
 
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Alatariel

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 15, 2010
Yes, everyone else should sit down and shut up because janetfan says so. Somehow I don't think so. Keep trying.
 

gfskater

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 4, 2009
Yes, everyone else should sit down and shut up because janetfan says so. Somehow I don't think so. Keep trying.

I often do not agree with janetfan (we but heads now and again) but I have to say that I agree here.

The rules are the rules and you really should not berate someone who studies them, plays by them, and wins. Dai played by the rules a well. HE had a great IJS program and is a wonderfully talented skater with some of the best skating skills in the group. He took a risk that did not pay off. He had some under rotated jumps and some edge warnings as well. I am sure missing the 4T threw him off his game. He won the Bronze and should be proud of it. The judges gave him the highest PCS score of the group even though he had 4 mistakes on his jumps. They did that because his transitions and performance execution were impeccable

That does not mean Evan is a "talentless drones that work the system" He is an excellent skater, with great skating skills, interpretation, jumps, and spins.

Anton Kovalevski who placed dead last in the 2010 men’s figure skating competition is many times better than just about anyone if not everyone posting on this board. There are probably thousands and thousands of skaters between your ability and his.

Everyone who qualified for the Olympics should be very proud!
 

krenseby

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Yes, everyone else should sit down and shut up because janetfan says so. Somehow I don't think so. Keep trying.

Alatariel does have a point. I don't begrudge Evan his win and I do think he is a legitimate gold medalist. But it can't be denied that his program construction to maximize COP points contributed to his win. His competitors weren't as smart with the COP and that held them back.

I for one would have been happier to see both Evgeni be more COP conscious, but hey you can't blame Evan for the fact that the other guys don't think about the rules as much as he has ;-)
 
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