- Joined
- Feb 25, 2006
Hell no.. it would cause men who aren't top-rate to get injured, both practicing it and maybe taking nasty falls on it in the program.
Should a quad be a required element in Mens skating?
- Thread starter Mafke
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- Nov 27, 2009
My thoughts exactly! I think we have already seen what pushing the quad (or triple-triples in the ladies events) at all costs has lead to; Alexei Yagudin and Tara Lipiniski and Naomi Nari Nam are perfect examples. Personally, I don't think quads should be encouraged much less required. It should probably be banned from competitions altogether. Too many skaters have gotten hurt trying to push their bodies to do something they can't physically do because they need the most difficult element to rack up the most points--this is why we have 20 year old skaters with the joints of 90 year old women. One element is not worth the risk of skaters permenantly injuring themselves or the toll it takes on the bodies even without the injuries. It's just not worth it.
He was doing the triple axel - half loop - triple flip. OMG.
He was also attempting the quad lutz.
Evgeni Plushenko is the king of all things cool in figure skating. Scott practically creamed his pants on some of those combo back in the day. I
I don't think any specific jump should be required. Skaters should be allowed to choose to do the jumps they do best at. However, I don't like how the media and commentaries talk about quads in a negative light. Quads are definitely special because few can do it well and they are spectacular to watch. If a skater can do these jumps well, then they should be rewarded more for them as an incentive for others to try it more. I don't like how the current judging favors playing it safe because then the programs won't be as exciting to watch as before in my opinion.
not in the short--why too much-remember alexei urmanov who won with more artistic; but not world title --why groin injury due to quad. they should take it out in the short to focus on the artisic part--you know spins; spirals, footwork and levels because short is more precise than long.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
four years ago people were complaining the quad was worth too much - not because of Evgeni so much as because of what Jeff Buttle did in the LP - he fully rotated and then fell - a plan he had. He'd go for teh full rotation regardless if he landed on one foot - if not he'd just fall. He popped up over Evan for bronze... I thought that was far more inexcusable (doing it on purpose???) than someone making the podium without one.
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2010
You're right. Where was the outrage 4 yrs ago that the quad was not worth enough? Team Plushy was fine with the CoP back then. As long as he won, there was no reform needed. Fast forward to him losing and suddenly the whole system (which has been in place for FOUR years) is terrible. I don't think it's perfect- but did we not KNOW what the jump values were? I think if a skater wants to destroy their knees, hips, etc. it's their perogative. But don't require it.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
Actually this is the _SIXTH_ season that CoP has been in use for all ISU competitions.
I agree that it was terribly unfair of the ISU to withhold information on point values from Team Plushenko before the olympics.
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- Joined
- Feb 19, 2010
Sorry, I meant it's been four years since the last Olympics. I should have been clearer.
I agree with the thought - the triple axel isn't even mandatory (though doing at least one axel jump, be it double, whatever, is). If a triple axel isn't even mandatory why shoudl a quad be?
Such a small fraction of skaters have a consistent quad that is cleanly rotated and landed. That would punish all skaters who can't do it. Personally, I'd rather make decent choreography and excellent skating skills mandatory - it takes a whole career to develop those. A quad just takes a fraction of that.
Such a small fraction of skaters have a consistent quad that is cleanly rotated and landed. That would punish all skaters who can't do it. Personally, I'd rather make decent choreography and excellent skating skills mandatory - it takes a whole career to develop those. A quad just takes a fraction of that.
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- Jul 11, 2003
If a fan is looking for the thrill of a Quad, it pales to the Tricks of Freestyle Skiing.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
I am a big quad supporter. But to make one element to be mandatory will shut out most of the skaters if said element could only be executed by such small number of athletes. The quad should not be a required element in Men's skating as long as it remains to be a jump which can only be performed by a minority athletes on the top. It should, though, be rewarded and encouraged more than it already has in order to push the athletic side of the men's skating. In the meantime, discourage skaters who find ways to compensate this prestigious element in order to get on the top.
In this regards, I really appreciate Brian Joubert and Evgeni Plushenko for speaking it out.
That other sports have more thrills doesn't mean that figure skating shouldn't or is not necessary to have thrill. Why can't we have thrill along side of beauty?
In this regards, I really appreciate Brian Joubert and Evgeni Plushenko for speaking it out.
That other sports have more thrills doesn't mean that figure skating shouldn't or is not necessary to have thrill. Why can't we have thrill along side of beauty?
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I think he was talking about the Olympic Champ. But not about everyone.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I got quite a thrill watching V/M last night. If my memory is right I don't think they did a quad jump
We all have different ideas about what is thrilling.
I get a bigger thrill watching Jeremy transition into a nice triple jump but not so much watching him do a quad.
But ISU may raise the value again. There is no Tim Goebel now so they don't have to worry about a skater with three quads beating better all around skaters.
Plushy and Joubert talk about landing so many quads but we see they are no match for Goebel.
He remains the true "Quad King."
I've read Timothy Goebel's take on this (click here: http://currentskateofmind.com/2010/02/21/timothy-goebel-responds-to-elvis-stojkos-rant/), and I think all in all his is the most balanced POV, though of course I always have to keep in mind he is an American whom was beaten by two Russians during his career, so subconciously I cannot preclude that there must be a tad resentment there. Nevertheless, his analysis (in my mind) is the most balanced I've read thus far. 
And of course the absolute best part of the article is this:
In order to help the sport move forward, I would like to see a dialogue open between the ISU and former athletes who have performed multiple quads in competition. Elvis, myself, and many of our peers have invaluble competition experience for understanding the difficulty in executing these jumps. I agree that the system needs some major adjustments. Working together with the ISU, I am confident that we could come up with a point spread that would encourage and reward athletes to attempt more difficult elements, and do so without turning the sport into a jump contest.
Yes, there definitely MUST be a consortium of past (& perhaps even present) male athletes that have performed the quad with regularity (e.g. Elvis Stojko, Timothy Goebel, Alexei Yagudin, Evgeni Plushenko, Stephane Lambiel, Brian Joubert) whom can go before a panel of ISU judges/members/dignitaries/et al, and explain in full detail how difficult the quad is to master & perform, totally different in every way from any triple jump, and therefore its point value must reflect that difficulty & mastery of said jump. Something like a 15.8+ would be appropriate IMHO. As it stands now, the quad is equal to a 3/2 combo. done after the halfway mark to garner extra credit. This is outrageous & must be changed in my humble opinion. With educaton & an open mind, the ISU & COP will see this, and re-evaluate the current low point value of the quad for the men (& the triple axel for the women). This is my hope. Thanks for listening.
And of course the absolute best part of the article is this:
In order to help the sport move forward, I would like to see a dialogue open between the ISU and former athletes who have performed multiple quads in competition. Elvis, myself, and many of our peers have invaluble competition experience for understanding the difficulty in executing these jumps. I agree that the system needs some major adjustments. Working together with the ISU, I am confident that we could come up with a point spread that would encourage and reward athletes to attempt more difficult elements, and do so without turning the sport into a jump contest.
Yes, there definitely MUST be a consortium of past (& perhaps even present) male athletes that have performed the quad with regularity (e.g. Elvis Stojko, Timothy Goebel, Alexei Yagudin, Evgeni Plushenko, Stephane Lambiel, Brian Joubert) whom can go before a panel of ISU judges/members/dignitaries/et al, and explain in full detail how difficult the quad is to master & perform, totally different in every way from any triple jump, and therefore its point value must reflect that difficulty & mastery of said jump. Something like a 15.8+ would be appropriate IMHO. As it stands now, the quad is equal to a 3/2 combo. done after the halfway mark to garner extra credit. This is outrageous & must be changed in my humble opinion. With educaton & an open mind, the ISU & COP will see this, and re-evaluate the current low point value of the quad for the men (& the triple axel for the women). This is my hope. Thanks for listening.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2004
I wouldn't hold my breath. When has the ISU ever paid any attention whatsoever to what skaters want? Now if representatives of federations started pressuring the ISU something might happen, but skaters have never had any influence on the ISU AFAICT (Cinquanta publicly ridiculing Plushenko's position should be proof of that).
And the problem is no country (except partially Russia) has been good at producing regular quadsters and they don't have many in the pipeline. Why would a federation go out of their way to support a position that won't benefit them in the short run?
As I said, Mafke, please let us keep an open mind. *smile*
I'm actually hopeful that Timothy Goebel's suggestion will bring all the quadsters together to enact such a move. What do they have to lose? Nothing. It will only benefit the *sport* in the long run. It can't hurt. Better something than nothing is my humble opinion.
I'm actually hopeful that Timothy Goebel's suggestion will bring all the quadsters together to enact such a move. What do they have to lose? Nothing. It will only benefit the *sport* in the long run. It can't hurt. Better something than nothing is my humble opinion.
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