Questions raised over ice dance judging panel

[watchvancouver]

Meh, this reminds me of the whole Plushenko mess - smear the Russians way ahead of the contest so that we have a back up plan to fall on...

Both sides are dirty. N.A. mafia seem to be beating Russians at their own game this time. Read this article, very interesting.

http://auntjoyceicecreamstand.blogsp...-politics.html
The Art of International Politics

Evan Lysacek told reporters that his gold medal is as much Frank Carroll’s as it is his. All personal taste aside, Evan is right. Frank is a master politician. His former skaters will all attest to this after Frank learned a hard lesson in international politics at the 1980 Olympics. Frank was outplayed by an East German machine that didn’t even need to prop up their own skater in order to defeat Linda Fratianne.

“Figure skating is so political, how can you watch it?” is something I often field from coworkers who say they prefer sports with a definitive winner. A time clock is boring. To understand how Evan Lysacek was able to beat Evgeny Plushenko, one must understand that it did have a lot to do with their performances, but it also was a match between Frank and the North American machine against Mishin, Piseev and Didier.

[Tonichelle]

, forgot Sandra Bezic & Scott Hamilton, the holes in their face will be flying nonstop like at the 2002 Olympics.

:sheesh: Scott and Sandy don't commentate during ice dance.

[RealtorGal]

Just wondering who actually makes the decisions which judges are appointed for each event.

[chuckm]

Can you imagine the uproar if US and CAN "loaned" judges to other countries, and the panel consisted of two US judges, two Canadian judges, one RUS, and 4 European (nonSSR) judges? There would be a huge outcry.

But it's OK to have a panel with 4 judges who used to judge for the former Soviet Union.

[Tonichelle]

MSNBC just reported this issue... so you can bet it's going to be brought up by Tom Hammond and Bob Costas at some point tonight :sheesh:

nevermind the Russian athletes work just as hard and are just as good as the others, it's the country that counts.

[ImaginaryPogue]

MSNBC just reported this issue... so you can bet it's going to be brought up by Tom Hammond and Bob Costas at some point tonight :sheesh:

nevermind the Russian athletes work just as hard and are just as good as the others, it's the country that counts.

See, here's the thing. MSNBC/The Globe and Mail have really just pre-emptively struck when they need to wait. They're gonna presume unfairness right off the bat and when it could go either way, we're gonna assume chicanery. Of course, when you have people at Golden Skate suggesting that Lysacek won so the ISU could have easier access to USA coiffers, I suppose it's hard to get riled about anything.

[KKonas]

Both sides are dirty. N.A. mafia seem to be beating Russians at their own game this time. Read this article, very interesting.

http://auntjoyceicecreamstand.blogsp...-politics.html
The Art of International Politics

Don't know who "Aunt Joyce" is but seems like just a bunch of nonsense - rumors and gosssip only. I've known Frank for 30 years, if he was so powerful politicallly Kwan would have two Olympic gold medals.

[Tonichelle]

it's the whole "crying before your hurt"

however, if they don't say something before hand about the judges being such and such then it looks like they're whining because they lost... it's a lose lose situation in any case...

it's a way for the media to continue the whole drama element... no Russian pairs on the podium - the end of a dynasty and upset (no, it's not an upset, Russia just didn't have a podium worthy team this season, teh cycle has finally come full circle)... Evan pulls an upset with Evgeny - shocking when it was just all about Russia getting gold again (nevermind Evgeni was just a fantastic competitor... instead of making it USA v Russia it should have been about two men who are great COMPETITORS, not great artists or skaters edge wise)... now it's ice dance and we ALL know those cheating Russians have ALWAYS cheated in this event... :sheesh: it's just how it's always been here so most don't see it as wrong, or disagree...

it's poor journalism, but I don't think our media has done much JOURNALISM as they do TABLOID. Tabloids sell more.

[watchvancouver]

it's a way for the media to continue the whole drama element... no Russian pairs on the podium .

No Russian pairs on the podium does not mean Russian mafia did not try. The suddent ascendancy of K&S in their PCS on par with S&Z and S&S is a joke. S&S could have beaten any pair by a mille in previous years no matter how horribly they skated. They were in shock by losing to K&S despite skating decently at Euros.

If K&S only made minor mistakes instead of collapse in the LP at Olys, they would have definitely beat P&T no matter how wonderfully they would have skated.

K&S are an absolute hot mess. Maybe judges are hypnotised by Moskvina's magic wands?

[watchvancouver]

Don't know who "Aunt Joyce" is but seems like just a bunch of nonsense - rumors and gosssip only. I've known Frank for 30 years, if he was so powerful politicallly Kwan would have two Olympic gold medals.

Well, Aunt Joyce divulged Sasha would withdraw from SA long based on inside information before the official announcement.

[Joesitz]

I don't believe there is any case for conspiracy, but from what the article assumes is that there is a gathering of the Russo clan from where ever they are who will vote in unisome. You have to believe if any of the 'Stans' are on the panel they will not be muslims but former Russians or their families sent to a stan for the service of the USSR. How much other States, e,g, Hungary, are still beholding to the USSR and therefore Russia is moot. There is no denying that the North Americans are not held in esteem in other countries. And for that reason, I do not believe V/M, D/W, and B/A have a chance for gold. It will be Russia's one chance for gold. The North Americans will get silver and bronze as a token of fairness.

I was hoping someone would answer Realtor Girl's question, on how the selection of judges are made for each phase of the contest. I would also like someone to confirm, if a judge has been found guilty of cheating, that they can continue to judge.

Anyone?

[watchvancouver]

I How much other States, e,g, Hungary, are still beholding to the USSR and therefore Russia is moot.

Many former U.S.S.R apologists are making the case that those countries are actually hostile to Russia in terms of geopolitics. I think this is very misleading and disingenous. Geopolitics plays very little role in how they'd bloc vote in figure skating events. It's more a cultural kinship that bonds them together. Many of these former satellite countries still believe Russia is superior, and they're just so accustomed to their former 'master' in terms of cultural influence. They genuiely believe figure skaters from countries other than Russia are always inferior.

[Cadiva]

I don't believe there is any case for conspiracy, but from what the article assumes is that there is a gathering of the Russo clan from where ever they are who will vote in unisome. You have to believe if any of the 'Stans' are on the panel they will not be muslims but former Russians or their families sent to a stan for the service of the USSR. How much other States, e,g, Hungary, are still beholding to the USSR and therefore Russia is moot. There is no denying that the North Americans are not held in esteem in other countries. And for that reason, I do not believe V/M, D/W, and B/A have a chance for gold. It will be Russia's one chance for gold. The North Americans will get silver and bronze as a token of fairness.

I was hoping someone would answer Realtor Girl's question, on how the selection of judges are made for each phase of the contest. I would also like someone to confirm, if a judge has been found guilty of cheating, that they can continue to judge.

Anyone?

No-one's been found guilty of cheating that's sat on the panel so unsure as to the point of this question? One of the judges' on the panel has had a poor assessment over the level of her English as far as I am aware not being punished for cheating. The only judge alleged to have cheated was banned after the 2002 Olympics.

As an aside, I'm assuming all those claiming that the judging panel tonight wouldn't be marking fairly are now eating their words given the results of tonight's Original Dance

Many former U.S.S.R apologists are making the case that those countries are actually hostile to Russia in terms of geopolitics. I think this is very misleading and disingenous. Geopolitics plays very little role in how they'd bloc vote in figure skating events. It's more a cultural kinship that bonds them together. Many of these former satellite countries still believe Russia is superior, and they're just so accustomed to their former 'master' in terms of cultural influence. They genuiely believe figure skaters from countries other than Russia are always inferior.

And how, exactly, do you know this? Are you a politican expert based in Europe and regularly visiting these former USSR countries? Certainly from my bit of Europe there is a vast amount of resentment, even to the extent of hatred, from a lot of former Soviet state countries which are now independent.
It's yet another Cold War myth that they'll all run around after "Mother Russia". A lot of those countries are far more akin to their Middle Eastern relatives than they are to the Russian state (any of the 'Stans for example) and many of the Mediterranean bordering former USSR countries have an affinity with the European Union.

The newspaper article in question is grandstanding, pure and simple, and as I said, it's highly unlikely to have ever been published in the UK under our newspaper Code of Practice for factual reporting.

On a side note, can I just say that an unnamed European skating expert that I know pointed out that there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever to say that any of the people involved in the OD judging were favouring Russia.

See, I can make the same disingenuous statement too without actually having to provide any proof to back it up.

[A.H.Black]

Having just seen all the scores for OD, this article was a total non-starter.

[yangjie]

Im really tired of this COLD WAR.