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Thread: Ladies' LP

  1. #1741
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmelanie View Post
    If we're going to talk about engaging, how about either of Mao's gala programs from this season and last??!!
    Oh! Her galas programs are always wonderful. She's also more expressive in them because I guess she is more relaxed.

    I think Yuna would have won under 6.0 system too. The old system also valued clean performances. However, there scores more have been closer under the old system.
    Last edited by miki88; 02-26-2010 at 07:54 PM.

  2. #1742
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonbinfan86 View Post
    My only concern is that the 6.0 system gave way too much credit to the jumps, Asada under that system would have won that by a landslide.
    Oh I know. I'm just pointing out that the COP is really NOT more fair than the 6.0. I personally feel like we've all been taken for a ride.

    For sentimental reason, I'm missing 6.0 more and more each day. I know it has its problems, but nostalgia is a strong emotion. In terms of credits to jumps vs. transition/footwork/choreography, wouldn't it be great if we can find a middle ground? I really think now we're not giving enough credit for pushing the sport forward jump-wise. Sure, this sport is not called figure-jumping, but it's also not ice dancing either.

  3. #1743
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlgpffps View Post
    Yu-na: She's simply sublime. She may have been emotionally reserved, but I think that's the effect she was going for. Gershwin is not music that you leep in joy with. It's not music that reduces you to tears by tugging at your heartstrings. It's sophisticated, poised and understated. It's like a lunar undertow. It's serene. That was one of the best-skated Olympic performances ever. She felt the music. She delivered the whole package. She was a staggering giant on ice (she had presence). She did all this in spite of all the pressure. When Yu-na cried, I cried with her because I could feel her finally putting down all the burdens that had pulled her down. She lost the tethers of a country waiting in anticipation and a hype building around her when she got on the ice and floated through her program. Her skating was carefree and ethereal. I thank her for her skate, and I'll forever cherish this moment. She deserved her gold medal, hands down. She also broke the favorite jinx by delivering two clean performances back to back, winning both the SP and LP.
    When I first heard the Gershwin Piano Concerto, I was like "meh." But I eventually came around to appreciate it. I wonder, though, what it would have been like if Yu-na had skated that other, more famous Gershwin piece, Rhapsody in Blue? That one also has a lot of tempo and mood changes. Then again, Ilia Kulik already used it for his gold-winning free skate back in '98... So I suppose Yu-Na has made the piano concerto all her own! :D

  4. #1744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren View Post
    When I first heard the Gershwin Piano Concerto, I was like "meh." But I eventually came around to appreciate it. I wonder, though, what it would have been like if Yu-na had skated that other, more famous Gershwin piece, Rhapsody in Blue? That one also has a lot of tempo and mood changes. Then again, Ilia Kulik already used it for his gold-winning free skate back in '98... So I suppose Yu-Na has made the piano concerto all her own! :D
    I think the Gershwin piece was a grow-on-you type of thing. I think we are so used to more powerful pieces like Dance Macbre or Tango Roxanne that the Concerto in F seems bland in comparision.

    But I think the program gave her a new challenge; a different way to showcase her ability. The music was nice because it didn't overpower Yuna and her skating. The quiet nature of the piece allwed her to show that she can be light and graceful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonbinfan86 View Post
    My only concern is that the 6.0 system gave way too much credit to the jumps, Asada under that system would have won that by a landslide.
    i disagree. even if it was the 6.0 system, mao with her missed jump, lack of a lutz/3-3, incorrect edge take-offs and almost-two-footed landing would have lost to yuna at these olympics. i think mao is a lovely skater who unfortunately learned some of her jumps incorrectly from the beginning, which has led to her being downgraded over the recent years, which has eaten away at her confidence as well. she is enormously talented as we can tell from her triple axles. she has better positions in her spirals and spins than yuna.

    BUT as we know there is a reason figure skating is competed in the format of 4 minute programs with choreography, music, and connecting steps. if all that mattered is who can do a difficult jump, then we would have a "ski jump"-like competition where the skater would just come out with no music, skate around the rink and then give us there two most difficult jumps they can do and get medals based on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    Another colleague went up to me the day after Men's final and said oh my god I've suddenly become a huge fan of Evan. I said "I'm happy he won too but you know, there's a bit of a controversy because he didn't do a quad and the Russian did."

    And she said, "Well I don't know about that. I just think Evan Plushenko is hot!"

  7. #1747
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbleyum View Post
    i disagree. even if it was the 6.0 system, mao with her missed jump, lack of a lutz/3-3, incorrect edge take-offs and almost-two-footed landing would have lost to yuna at these olympics. i think mao is a lovely skater who unfortunately learned some of her jumps incorrectly from the beginning, which has led to her being downgraded over the recent years, which has eaten away at her confidence as well. she is enormously talented as we can tell from her triple axles. she has better positions in her spirals and spins than yuna.

    BUT as we know there is a reason figure skating is competed in the format of 4 minute programs with choreography, music, and connecting steps. if all that mattered is who can do a difficult jump, then we would have a "ski jump"-like competition where the skater would just come out with no music, skate around the rink and then give us there two most difficult jumps they can do and get medals based on that.
    Edge take-offs and downgrades were not as penalized under the old system. Therefore, Mao probably would have included those jumps in her layout under the 6.0 system. She definitely would have benefited more under the old system. Yuna would still have won because Mao did make mistakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    There was a youtube video of Mirai practicing 3A when she was with Charlene. It was a bit UR (3/8-1/2 on most of the attempts), but it was progressing. That was during her "twinkie" days of being tiny, 14 and fearless. Haven't seen vid of her practicing same with Frank, but Frank may be trying to assert his control (clean "easy" elements, full program run throughs) as he IS the coach.

    As for the toe pointing comment about Yuna = it appears she's wearing something that looks suspiciously like a top end Jackson FS boot based on the boot shape which notoriously is a "non-pointing" boot. I wore Reidells for YEARS and then switched to Harlicks and my first day my coach commented on the improved toe point. If Jacksons are what's comfortable for her feet, then no reason to switch as many skaters have gone through the boot shuffle and injury because of it (Goebel, Lysacek, Czisney...)
    Thanks for that clarification. Didn't Michelle Kwan also have some sort of boot issue in the past?

  9. #1749
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    Wonbinfan86 said

    My only concern is that the 6.0 system gave way too much credit to the jumps, Asada under that system would have won that by a landslide.
    You're not the only one to post this opinion. To all of you I ask--what in the world are you smoking? Yes Mao's fab 3a's would have garnered extremely high marks, but she also messed up a few things too. She might have gotten a couple of 6.0s (undeserved) but all 5.8 or above. What do you suggest YuNa would have gotten? I say her perfect program including 3z-3t and 2a-3t would also have gotten at least 5.8 sacross the board. She also would gotten nothing less than 5.9 (and likely a few 6's) for artistic, while Mao would not have gotten anywhere near that (maybe a couple of 5.9s but mostly 5.8s. Ergo, Kim wins just as easily as she did last nite.

  10. #1750
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren View Post
    When I first heard the Gershwin Piano Concerto, I was like "meh." But I eventually came around to appreciate it. I wonder, though, what it would have been like if Yu-na had skated that other, more famous Gershwin piece, Rhapsody in Blue? That one also has a lot of tempo and mood changes. Then again, Ilia Kulik already used it for his gold-winning free skate back in '98... So I suppose Yu-Na has made the piano concerto all her own! :D
    During the morning rehearsal, Yuna showed off her steps to The Bells of Moscow. That was really something. It was totally different presentation than Mao's up & down upper body movement.

    Oh well.. it was on youtube and then, someone reported it as copy-righted material :(
    It's gone now ..
    Last edited by hellcat; 02-26-2010 at 08:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    I think Fantasy for Violin was Mao's best choreographed SP. It was mature and elegant. I still think Czardas was her best LP program. Fantaisie-Impromptu is very good and had more difficulty but it was not as engaging and fun as Czardas.
    agree with you. but JUdged might give the low PSC to the MAo if mao skated with that music because its childish.

    thats the problem. judges like the adult music.

  12. #1752
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonbinfan86 View Post
    My only concern is that the 6.0 system gave way too much credit to the jumps, Asada under that system would have won that by a landslide.
    I really don't agree with this. Yu-Na landed 6 clean triples in the LP while Mao only managed 4. Kim was pristine clean in both programs while Asada had 2 major mistakes in the LP - the very noticeable badly UR 3flip with a turn-out and the 1toe. I think some people unfairly undermind the difficulty of Yu-Na's routine. A 3Lutz+3toe and a 2Axel+3toe are not small potatoes in my book, nor the judges'.

    Figure skating is a lot more than a 3Axel.

  13. #1753
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    Me too!! I'll beat them up! Japan better be proud of her, that's all I'm saying.
    [QUOTE=Layfan;479768]
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    They're not.

    Now they're hounding that poor girl, demanding to know about why she popped 3T, etc. etc.

    And they've already started a bunch of specials, analyzing Mao & Yuna's LP side by side to determine why Mao lost gold.

    NHK newsroom mood was very down after Mao's silver.

    It's a travesty.[/QUOTE

    This is devastating to hear. It makes me so angry.
    Quote Originally Posted by pokky_oc View Post
    GUYS!! Mao's SAD because she didn't skate clean!!:sheesh::sheesh:

    Not because she won silver... Imagine skating after Yu-Na and seeing 228 and 150 in your eyes... If I was standing in that position, I would probably withdraw and start crying But she landed two of her triple axels, some how, and they were WOW!! Mao should realise how beautiful the silver medal is once she returns to the Athlete's Village!!
    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    You .. think you do?

    If the information about the Japanese media is true, then I really feel bad for her.
    I don't think so. It is said that she is likely to be the flag bearer at the Closing Ceremony. It's such an honor.
    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20...024-sanspo-spo

    The head of soccer association says the team Japan should see Mao as a role model. Despite the point difference, the second place is wonderful. To cry for disappointment after getting Silver is something really admirable.
    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20...17-sanspo-socc

    Ichiro in an American Major baseball League also says the same thing.
    http://vancouver.yahoo.co.jp/news/nd...43-jij_van-spo

    The Prime Minister Hatoyama says "Skater Yuna Kim was dominantly strong so that we'd be happy how wonderful Silver is. I would like to congratulate heartily. It is wonderful that Japan and Korea pump up the event. It will boost the motivation for Japan to aim for winning the next time. (Re Dai's Bronze and all the six Japanese skaters coming within 8th) it is a wonderful accomplishment."
    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20...000188-jij-spo

    I watch NHK that Nadia1 mentions. In a 90-min program that they show selected Olympic sports everyday at night, they congratulates her for Silver and two 3As. They also praised Yuna's perfect performance. After showing performances of Akiko, Miki, Yuna, Mao, Rochette, and Mirai, interviews with Akiko, Miki, Mao, and Yuna, as well as other sports, they went back to FS and introduced cheering FAX messages from the audience to the skaters (to Japanese skaters and Yuna) and showed Yuna's entire performance again as a recap to appreciate her good performance. It was a nice, warm program.
    I also saw the interview with Mao right after the performance, but it was not mean. The interview questions were calm, neutral, and gentle. Nothing emotional to solicit emotional responses. He also mentions the two 3As to focus on the bright side.
    Last edited by Bennett; 02-26-2010 at 10:25 PM.

  14. #1754
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    Quote Originally Posted by pshla View Post
    Oh I know. I'm just pointing out that the COP is really NOT more fair than the 6.0. I personally feel like we've all been taken for a ride.

    For sentimental reason, I'm missing 6.0 more and more each day. I know it has its problems, but nostalgia is a strong emotion. In terms of credits to jumps vs. transition/footwork/choreography, wouldn't it be great if we can find a middle ground? I really think now we're not giving enough credit for pushing the sport forward jump-wise. Sure, this sport is not called figure-jumping, but it's also not ice dancing either.
    ITA. And I think CoP could do better rewarding positions too. As a long time Sasha fan, I love her perfect laybacks (back parallel to the ice, free leg turned out in a perfect attitude position) and spirals (180 degree split, turnout, unassisted with hand). These things should get extra GOE points. Some people discount the value of positions, but I think they're some of the most beautiful aspects of figure skating to watch. And they're obviously very difficult to perform well and take a great deal of strength and flexibility, because you don't see many ladies with that quality of position that Sasha had. So I think that should be rewarded more under CoP so that up and coming skaters have incentive to work on their flexibility and positions.
    Last edited by karenll; 02-26-2010 at 09:34 PM.

  15. #1755
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    Quote Originally Posted by karenll View Post
    I thought Mao would break down too. I thought Rachael was unfairly downgraded on her jumps (they looked totally fine to me), and I thought Mirai had the skate of the night and was undermarked for it. Mirai had same the 2A/3T as Yuna. She had arguably better spins and spirals. She didn't have the 3L/3T, but she did have the 3Lo-2A sequence. And she ended up losing by 25 points? That makes no sense.
    Well here goes. First of all Mirai had only level 2 step sequence and a level 2 spiral. That cost her points. Second Mirai flutzs so she loses points on her 3lutz through GOE. Yu-na does not flutz and fixed her edge issues on the flip.

    The biggest difference between the two of them GOE was explained by Eurosport. What was great about Yu-na's program was almost every jump had a difficult transition coming in and/or out of it and some both.

    For example, Mirai's double axel/3toe was at the beginning of the program and was just a double axel/3toe she actually got 1.4 GOE on it.

    In contrast Yu-na did a spread eagle into a double axel/3toe, and so she got +2 GOE on it. It was also done at the later half of the program. Yu-na's 3lutz/3toe deservedly gets high GOE. And her second lutz was delayed (which is a feature of GOE) and if you notice after she landed it she stayed on one foot and did a twizzle.... So Kim was raking in the GOE because of all the nuanced features that Mirai's program did not have... As for the spins, overall Mirai averaged higher GOE for her spins. But Yu-na normally gets around plus 1 for some of her spins because they are normally well centered/fast.

    And as for PCS. Mirai doesn't skate with the same maturity as the other girls. Nor is her speed or skating skills at Yu-na's level. Also while Mirai is a great performer. I would hardly call her performance a great example of interpreting music. That was KinderCarmen. Cutsy yes fun-but not exactly meriting plus 9s for musical interpertation. Also some of her PCS was because she's not yet considered at the top level. But all of these things up. Maybe you could argue a few points here on like the spins/spirals about Yu-na's GOE. But the fact that Yu-na deserved a lot higher GOE for her jumps when she's doing a program that jam packed with transitions, isn't arguable.

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