Ladies' LP

Joesitz said:

Aside from the lousy coverage by NBC, what I did see was:

Cheltze - So good to watch a new girl on the block. Hope her coach has her developing more technical skills. As for performance, the choreogapher gives her the blueprint and she takes it from there with her own personality. She has star quality..

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That's wonderful to hear. I'm biased b/c I run her official website, but from all reports, Cheltzie can land the lutz, flip, loop and 3toe/3toe. Her coach, Kylie, wanted to wait until these new jumps are more consistent before she tries them in championship competition.

Mafke said:

hints? for complicated reasons I wasn't able to record from tv (or be around when things are broadcast) and the incredibly idiotic youtube policy means I haven't seen much...... (just what wrong is being set right by banning videos from youtube? what unmet need is being met by doing that? hating the IOC and NBC?)

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I have an account with fsvids.net if that helps.

I got the exact podium I wanted! Yay! Queen Yu-Na sure lived up to that title last night. It was so beautiful. Mao just looked dull in comparison.

4 years ago I saw Mao & Yu-Na live at J. Worlds in Kitchener, ON. At the time I said, "there's your big match-up for Vancouver" so it was exciting to see that the two of them fulufilled what I expected. However, at that comp, they were very similar in skating ability and style. I find, after 4 years, Yu-Na polished what she had at that comp, and Mao lost her pretty, lyrical style by focusing on the juimps. Sadly, that was the difference for the OGM.

What was the -GOE on Joannie's second 3lz? It was less than-1 so some judges called it and some didn't. I didn't see a problem with it. The 3 flip had a minor step-out by the 3 lutz seemed fine.

Completely agree with the placements, no contestation whatsoever. However, the issue of GOE as being too subjective and having too much influence was proven rather than disproven I think.

Regarding Mao's choices, I think that she had really no other choice. Two years ago, CoP suddenly started telling her she couldn't do 3-3s. And she saw that GoEs were only going to be given to people who had a speedy and powerful style. If she was going to have any chance at gold, she had to focus on her triple-axel, despite the fact that, under the current system, even doing such a special element as the triple-axel doesn't have the dividends it should.

Mao has improved hugely over these past two years. She's physically much more stronger, and still improving every day. Between 4cc and Olympics, her spiral improved again, and even though the camera work didn't let me see clearly, I was amazed to see that she had a noticable delay on her flip!

The next hurdle will be the lutz, and I really hope that she will have/already has a jump coach that can help her feel fully secure about her jump technique.

I really wonder if Mao will part from Tarasova? I didn't really like Bells as a program, but I completely understood where it was coming from. Tarasova has also made other programs for Mao that are my favorites. I do think that Tarasova understands the beauty of Mao's style and how to showcase it well in programs. What I do think (and this is so completely a figment of my imagination) is that Tat did not understand how to interact with Mao to bring out the best in her in competition. I used to watch Tarasova glaring at Mao and wind her up saying 'just do it' right before her performance and think 'God, that is the worst thing to do to a girl like Mao.' However, at the Olympics, I was glad to see that Mao was just left alone to collect herself before going out into the rink, and I think this was what Mao needs to gather herself together. And so I think that maybe Tat finally got the hang of 'Mao'. I wouldn't mind if Mao continued to be coached byTat for a while longer. I think Tat could come up with masterpiece programs for Mao.

But anyway, this is all totally my own imagining, so maybe they'll part. It may also be that things like Tat's health, distance, will lead to other arrangements.

sleepyjl said:

OK, now that the Olympics are over I think I can accurately say that Tarasova did not help Mao's chances at all and may have actually hurt them. Why the hell was she focusing so much on the 3A to the detriment of Mao's other elements? The fact that Mao only ended up with 4 successful triple jumps in the LP is Tarasova's fault and her fault alone. Does she not understand simple arithmetic? You don't win by wowing the judges with a single trick; you do a series of tricks that cumulatively add up to a monster score. Her horrible costuming and music choices aside (cuz let's be honest, if Mao ended up winning the gold we'd all be praising Tarasova's genius in selecting a more "serious" piece with suitably "dark" costumes), her inability to work the CoP system was criminally negligent.

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This has been discussed elsewhere (in the 'Stojko opposes the ladies result' thread). I asked about Tarasova there. bethissoawesome posted (on page 14 of that thread) that:

"It was Mao who decided to go for the two 3A's... "Team Mao" wanted to take the 3A out of her programs once she became inconsistent with them, Mao refused. Even the idea of losing the 3A has made her cry in interviews... it's something very important to her in skating... she knows the rules and the risks, so at the end of the day, it should be her choice whether or not to do it."


bethissoawesome's post above is actually a reply to bmelanie's original post:

"I have heard that it was at Mao's insistence that she put 2 3As in the LP - but it's hearsay, I can't speak for her. I did read that the music selection was Mao's; Tarasova gave her a couple of options for each program and Mao chose Masquerade and Bells - so we can't really blame TAT for that. As for training grounds, Mao wanted to train at Chukyo University where they provided her with a private rink for training, and of course any skater would want to stay in a familiar environment. eg. Yuna may train in Canada but she lives within the sizeable Korean community in Toronto.

Mao may not seem like it, but simply looking at the decisions she has made over the past few seasons - leaving Arutunian right before Worlds, putting 2 3As in her LP, refusing to change any content in her programs, recycling the Masquerade - I feel she's got a pretty stubborn streak. She sticks with a decision, for better or for worse, and I do respect her for that, even if I find it frustrating. There's a fine line between persistence and butthead stubborn, however, and I think she's been toeing it."




So I don't think we should lay all the blame on Tarasova's feet. Concerning the costume choices, though, I haven't read anything who is primarily responsible for that, so I have no idea if Tarasova suggested them to Mao.

Also, I can't remember the poster's name right now, but someone else on the Stojko thread said that apparently Tarasova had wanted Mao to get a technical coach, but Mao didn't agree (Please correct me if I'm wrong). If this is true, I at least would believe that Tarasova knows her own strengths and weaknesses. That is, I believe she knows that she is more of a choreographer, and would work better with someone who already knows his/her jumps (I think this was the case with Alexei Yagudin when he approached Tarasova after he left his old coach Mishin).

P.S. Sorry about the quote format. I'm still learning the mechanics of this site and am still figuring out how to place multiple quotes...

Ren said:

This has been discussed elsewhere (in the 'Stojko opposes the ladies result' thread). I asked about Tarasova there. bethissoawesome posted (on page 14 of that thread) that:

"It was Mao who decided to go for the two 3A's... "Team Mao" wanted to take the 3A out of her programs once she became inconsistent with them, Mao refused. Even the idea of losing the 3A has made her cry in interviews... it's something very important to her in skating... she knows the rules and the risks, so at the end of the day, it should be her choice whether or not to do it."


bethissoawesome's post above is actually a reply to bmelanie's original post:

"I have heard that it was at Mao's insistence that she put 2 3As in the LP - but it's hearsay, I can't speak for her. I did read that the music selection was Mao's; Tarasova gave her a couple of options for each program and Mao chose Masquerade and Bells - so we can't really blame TAT for that. As for training grounds, Mao wanted to train at Chukyo University where they provided her with a private rink for training, and of course any skater would want to stay in a familiar environment. eg. Yuna may train in Canada but she lives within the sizeable Korean community in Toronto.

Mao may not seem like it, but simply looking at the decisions she has made over the past few seasons - leaving Arutunian right before Worlds, putting 2 3As in her LP, refusing to change any content in her programs, recycling the Masquerade - I feel she's got a pretty stubborn streak. She sticks with a decision, for better or for worse, and I do respect her for that, even if I find it frustrating. There's a fine line between persistence and butthead stubborn, however, and I think she's been toeing it."




So I don't think we should lay all the blame on Tarasova's feet. Concerning the costume choices, though, I haven't read anything who is primarily responsible for that, so I have no idea if Tarasova suggested them to Mao.

P.S. Sorry about the quote format. I'm still learning the mechanics of this site and am still figuring out how to place multiple quotes...

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Thanks for the clarifications. I guess I do have a certain bias against TAT because she looks and acts like Ursula the Sea Witch.

*Sniper* said:

NBC Not to show 2/3 of the skaters is one thing, but how can they not even bother to show the complete standing even once?

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Yeah, their coverage was just atrocious.

I have a huge problem with them only showing 9 of the skaters, though, and then not even showing all the good ones at that. Why on Earth were we subjected to some crappy Australian skater (in both the SP and LP)? It's not like she had some special story. Leonova, Lepisto, and Suzuki were all cut out for no reason at all.

I am just abhorring the scoring at this event. I mean honestly..... 9th in the mens...??????????? Either the scale and judgements should be absolute or toss it out the window right now.....

sleepyjl said:

Thanks for the clarifications. I guess I do have a certain bias against TAT because she looks and acts like Ursula the Sea Witch.

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You're welcome. She does look very fierce and formidable in her fur coat, doesn't she?

bmelanie said:

LOL, cut us some slack. It's our first ever elite-level figure skater, and she just gave us gold. We needed that after our women's short track relay team was disqualified for some bullshit reason.

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It also does not hurt that YuNa is very very beautiful.

lavender said:

That's what it sounded like to me. I don't understand that. I can't believe she didn't think about all of Frank's skaters results and know that a lot of that success is that they do full runthroughs every practice.



I went to Frank after she split with her coach for awhile but it sounds like the commentators were saying she left because Frank made her aware that if she was going to be with him then she will be doing full runthroughs. That is mandatory with Frank.

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That is simply not true. The reason she left Frank was that they BOTH decided together that he couldn't spend enough time with her. Christa went to Euros with her, it worked out well and they decided it would be best if Christa takes care of her full time. Frank is still on the team, but in the background. He is a wise man and knows when to step back. It has nothing to do with her not wanting to do full runthroughs (because in fact, she does. I have seen her practice full runthroughs loads of times - she just didn't do them here in Vancouver). Some people make her sound as if she was a lazy skater, which is simply not true.

I just watched it!

Akiko What a joy to watch! A little mistakes, but she performed from the heart! I am glad that she moved the audience! That's what she wanted!

Lepisto What a strange incident with the music! Wow! But she did it well! It was by far the best performance of hers I have ever seen! She looks very skinny, BTW.

Caro Beautiful program and beautiful costume! I loved it! I am sorry about the jumps. But supportive audience. She is very graceful and beautiful to watch. Great speed as always.

Rachael I didn't see any URs real time. I don't think that she rotated any less than she did at SP or at her nationals.
Aside from that, it was a great performance. I don't quite see why people put down on her presentation. Her posture, stretch, and spin positions could have been better. But other than that, she is great. She also had great speed, too.

Miki The major issue was the speed. But wonderful height in her jumps. Her second jump tends to be higher than the first one. That's what I like. Some might have been a little URed. It was a good performance to watch and I can watch it more than twice. But I think that she would do better with stronger, faster music. I wonder if she is losing her stamina lately. She always had some speed issue throughout the season. But it was a very decent, respectable performance for the Olympics. I didn't think that the emerald green is her color. Her makeup is not good much. But I like the darker face and darker body suit. She looks nice with tanned skin.

Yuna What can I say. She was Miss perfect at this Olympics. It was the first time that I saw her go clean in both programs. The program is not the most interesting one in the world. Her SP is a lot more memorable. But the quality of jumps and speed were simply fantastic. I especially liked her last lutz. It took off at the top speed and really great in quality.

Mao Both 3As were very high and and big. The first one was particularly impressive. She looks so much more secure with these jumps than she was at 4cc. I wish she had gotten better GOE on these though. Her performance was great in quality and I don't necessarily agree with the low TR score. She did omitt some TR but not that much. I am really sorry about the two mistakes. Her flip has not been going well lately. The toe loop seems to have been affected by that mistake. But great step sequence. I was really sorry to see her cry and so sad at the medal ceremony. Silver is actually a great accomplishment and three 3As that few people expected that she would really land. Yet, I am sorry that she couldn't deliver the kind of performance that she wanted.

Rochette I am amazed that she put herself together. She did make mistakes. But she was a lot faster than Miki. So I am fine with her going higher than Miki. Mirai might have deserved the podium if she were more established in her career and if this were not Canada.

Mirai I am kind of surprised that she didn't get any UR calls. What's the differences from the nationals???? She is such a joy to watch!!! Her skating was among the fastest of all and everything she does is so beautiful and refreshing. She certainly deserves better PCS. Hope she builds up her career and get the OGM next time!!! How cute she is. I am glad that she got 4th place.

edge31 said:

I am just abhorring the scoring at this event. I mean honestly..... 9th in the mens...??????????? Either the scale and judgements should be absolute or toss it out the window right now.....

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Yuna deserves gold medal for what she did, the judges deserve to be put through the wringer.

The only reason why this didn't turn out to be a judging scandal was because Yuna herself went out there and put on a performance that deserves gold. The judges were there to make sure that even if she put on a mediocre performance, she was still going to get gold.

edge31 said:

I am just abhorring the scoring at this event. I mean honestly..... 9th in the mens...??????????? Either the scale and judgements should be absolute or toss it out the window right now.....

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Don't forget, most of the men took part in a major splatfest. So she would have been 9th in this event, but in any other event, maybe not so much.

Blades of Passion said:

Yeah, their coverage was just atrocious.

I have a huge problem with them only showing 9 of the skaters, though, and then not even showing all the good ones at that. Why on Earth were we subjected to some crappy Australian skater (in both the SP and LP)? It's not like she had some special story. Leonova, Lepisto, and Suzuki were all cut out for no reason at all.

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Totally agree! I honestly think this was the worst coverage of the ladies' LP EVER in recent Olympic history since I've been closely following the sport since the Albertville 1992 Olympics. I mean, seriously, they only showed 1 skater (Elene G.) from that strong penultimate group. In total, all we got was Tugba, Cynthia, Cheltzie, Elene, Rachael, Miki, Yu-Na, Mao, Joannie, and Mirai. I'm so :disapp:.

The judges were there to make sure that even if she put on a mediocre performance, she was still going to get gold.

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That's a pretty bold statement considering Yu-Na skated two clean, sparkling performances worthy of gold. On what are you basing that judgement?

Sk8n Mama said:

That's a pretty bold statement considering Yu-Na skated two clean, sparkling performances worthy of gold. On what are you basing that judgement?

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Funny how you edited out the first two lines:

Yuna deserves gold medal for what she did, the judges deserve to be put through the wringer.

The only reason why this didn't turn out to be a judging scandal was because Yuna herself went out there and put on a performance that deserves gold.

Congratulations to the medalists !!!
YuNa was such a perfection ... simply incredible.
Mao, be proud of your three 3A, and of conquering that heavy music.
Joannie, just Bravo, as a former Montrealer I feel you close.

Mirai, yes, you are the Future(mirai) and it's already coming.
Rachael, you are never unreliable, impressively steady.

Well I'm a BIG Miki fan so whenever she doesn't do well I'm very sad, but this time I am absolutely NOT because she skated so beautifully! I'm very happy for her. It was exquisite.
Her performance was filled with delicate expressions integrated to her skating.
Most of them aren't broadway style so I imagine they could be hard to be comprehended in Western (or maybe North American?) culture.
She was definitely not just "skating around".
But if such impression as "empty" is posted like here in this forum, (which is utterly opposite of what all the commentaters say over here in Japan,) might it be better for Miki to reconsider her program choices? ...After all, this is figure skating and it's root is western.
However this Cloepatra program was choreoed by Lea Ann Miller. Morozof only tweaked it, and what's more, it was retweaked by Lea Ann twice last week, IIRC.

(Or maybe just a matter of choreo being too subtle?)

tralfamadorian said:

I didn't manage to wake up in the middle of the night, I just finished watching the last group up to Joannie so far, so I'm only going to comment on Mao/Yuna for now.

First of all, my impression from this Olympics is that the COP did a lot of good things but also a lot of bad things for skating. The good thing is that the ladies used to bore me to tears before but anymore, the programs have become so much more interesting, there wasn't one skater in the top 15 (of the short program) whose program I didn't enjoy (didn't see the rest), and the same is true for what I've seen of the long so far.

But on the other hand the scoring is beginning to turn me off figure skating big time, because IMO it has taken dishonest scoring to a whole new level. At least under the 6.0 system, you could only give a skater a relative advantage, now they can be given an absolute advantage so big that noone has any chance to catch up to. I also think with the COP you can almost place the skaters anywhere you want with the component/GOE scores, and sometimes some skaters are very blatantly under/overscored in a way that I've not seen before, and this is a HUGE turnoff for me.

Yuna was absolutey brilliant and she completely deserved her win, but the 20 point advantage is ridiculous.
I really can't imagine how Mao felt when she heard the scores for Yuna, that score was so huge that I think Mao had zero chance to win no matter what. I was really afraid she would collapse under the pressure, so RESPECT to her for landing both triple axels, just wow. Of course, she also made some mistakes, so I don't have any issues with her second place, and actually even if she went clean, I would still be ok with second place, but not with a score difference of 20 points which is just absurd. I feel Mao wasn't given even a theoretical chane to win this and that leaves a very bad taste for me.

I liked both Miki and Rachel, and I have to say I'm very pleasantly surprised by the US ladies because every performance I've seen from them was very enjoyable with good choreo and great musicality, so congrats to them as well.

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:thumbsup: Yuna deserves to win but the score was just too much. They really did not give a chance for Mao or Joannie (even if they skate clean) to catch up to her and that makes it not really like a competition.

screech said:

Don't forget, most of the men took part in a major splatfest. So she would have been 9th in this event, but in any other event, maybe not so much.

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having her non splat in her first Olys while being the fav for gold, makes her position among men even more impressive

I mean last 3 Olys the fav didnt win the gold. I liked her sp much better than Lp, and while I like Mao's skating more, Yuna she was pretty awesome, and her jumps oh my god, they have the quality of the top men, in height and ice coverage.

I forgot to say before, but I didnt like Miki this time. She skated small. All dresses of Lp this year were disaster.
I hope Mao skates to caprice in Gala