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Thread: Could a perfect Kwan have beaten a perfect Yu-Na?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice&Glass View Post
    I agree with most of the things you said. The only reason we may not want to compare yuna and mao is that we didn't actually see them compete, though.
    It's too bad "the lark ascending" was never delivered to its full potential. The program itself had the BEST choreography. I wished that she used lark ascending for her olympics lp. or just use it again in competetive season sometime.. (highly unlikely since she said in public she doesn't like any birds in general )
    And didn't Yu-Na say she has come to associate "The Lark Ascending" with her injury that year? There was pain when she skated it, IIRC. Such a shame, because it was a beautiful program.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Um...This is a Kwan thread.



    I don't know how many triple-triples Yu-na has done in major competitions, but Michelle did it eleven times in her career.
    Pretty sure Yuna has done it more times. But I thought toward the end of her career Michelle didn't do 3-3s anymore? Anyways, because Michelle skated under 6.0 I think it's hard to tell how she'd score under 2010 CoP.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Pretty sure Yuna has done it more times. But I thought toward the end of her career Michelle didn't do 3-3s anymore? Anyways, because Michelle skated under 6.0 I think it's hard to tell how she'd score under 2010 CoP.
    Who said it would have to be under 2010 CoP?
    Why not under 1990 era 6.0?

    And who said it would have to be Michelle at the end of her career? I think the premise was if they competed in their prime. That doesn't mean 30 year Michelle vs 19 year old Yuna.
    Is that how you saw it in one of your dreams?

    How about this? We take Yuna, Michelle, and Mao and put them against 1976 Dorothy Hamill.
    There would be school figures and no triple jumps.
    How much would Dorothy win by?

    Dorothy would win by a whole lot

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Who said it would have to be under 2010 CoP?
    Why not under 1990 era 6.0?


    And who said it would have to be Michelle at the end of her career? I think the premise was if they competed in their prime. That doesn't mean 30 year Michelle vs 19 year old Yuna.
    Is that how you saw it in one of your dreams?

    How about this? We take Yuna, Michelle, and Mao and put them against 1976 Dorothy Hamill.
    There would be school figures and no triple jumps.
    How much would Dorothy win by?

    Dorothy would win by a whole lot
    That's actually kinda intriguing. When I read that I picked instinctively without even thinking too much.... Yuna! I was surprised at my own choice but I just think, Yuna would have always gotten 5.8 and probably a whole lot of 5.9s for technical merit, wouldn't she? And her artistic marks would have been very high too. I think it's a situation sort of like Tara-Michelle in 98 where Tara was just good enough artistically that the judges had to put her first. Only Yuna is way better than Tara.

    Yet, I still prefer Michelle. A lot.

  5. #20
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    Under 6.0, probably Michelle. Under CoP, YuNa.

    Michelle's 11 triple-triples over the span of her career is peanuts compared to YuNa, who has likely done it more than 20 times since her senior debut (considering YuNa usually does 2 in every competition, participates in the Grand Prix, 4CC, and Worlds, etc.) YuNa would have a huge advantage over Michelle with her SP and its carry-over effect into the final scores under CoP. It would still be close, but yeah, YuNa > Michelle under CoP.

    Under 6.0, Michelle would have the edge, unless YuNa went back to the Roxanne/Lark level programs, in which case it would come down to whoever delivered better technical elements/jumps.

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    Michelle competed for 10 years, was the most consistent jumper/compeitor/presenter we will ever see. Her longevity was amazing and I seriously doubt we will see her like again under CoP. she did not have to do the big footwork sequences current ladies must. This is where she would have difficulty. She protected her body and was winning with 3-2's so she was very smart not to destroy her hip like Tara did.

    Are there more complete skaters than Michelle? Yes, there are several on a good day. But recall Salome and her first world title in 1996 even beat the exquisite Chen Lu. We forget she won her first world championship at 16. Do you YuNA tics even recall this skate? Were you alive, LOL?

    Yuna will be maybe a truly polished, very elegant skater in two years. But there will never likely be someone under cop who stays for 10 years. YUNA will likely turn pro within 2 years. I wonder if she could possibly put up with all the pressure from Koreans and all the lures of such rediculous sums of money to compete until Sochi. Injuries happen all the time. Kwan was very lucky and very smart, as well as favored by the judges.

    Former figure skaters and commentators like scott who gush a lot are seeing how much money they can make off YUNA if she skates with SOI. Don't you think all the hype and money around this girl affects the judges? C'mon! Everyone wants a piece of this girl. Any consistent ladies winner is welcome everywhere, esp here in the USA where we need a star to tour and revive the sport. The powers that be are just as happy to make money off this Korean "rock star." as any US or European skater.

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    "Watching Yu-Na doing the triple lutz/triple toe, I don't think anyone has ever done a triple lutz/triple toe in short program for the Olympics, and to do it so well."

    Only a handful of women have done the triple axel. Asada may have two of them in her long program.

    "What might be going through her (Asada's) brain right now is that she has nothing to lose. She's got to nail the two triple axels, thinking that (Kim) would do a clean program," said Kwan.

    How psychologically defeating is it to land a big jump like the triple axel and still place second?

    "Well, that's competition. Sometimes your best isn't good enough. … It's all what the judges are looking for, and apparently (Kim) is what the judges are looking for when it comes to jump quality and spin quality and her edges and all that,'' Kwan said.

    During her career, Kwan won nine U.S. titles and five world titles. She was a two-time Olympic medalist, silver and bronze.

    "I landed my triple lutz, triple toe one summer for like two months," said Kwan. "But not at the Olympic level." -- Gary Mihoces
    Telling words from Kwan! Read the rest here:
    http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ichelle-kwan/1

  8. #23
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    Michelle at her peak would beat Yu Na. Michelle had outstanding footwork sequences Bijoux. What planet have some of you been on for the past 15 years?

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    I would say that Michelle would beat Yu-Na under 6.0. Yu-Na could beat Michelle under CoP, but not by much due to Michelle's underrated technical amazingness. Michelle is my favourite of all time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrymeyunakim View Post
    I would say that Michelle would beat Yu-Na under 6.0. Yu-Na could beat Michelle under CoP, but not by much due to Michelle's underrated technical amazingness. Michelle is my favourite of all time.
    Under CoP, Michelle at her best would land 7 triples. 3T-3T, 3L, 3R, 3S, 3F, 3L, 2A.
    Yuna, at her best (TEB 2009), is doing 5 triples.
    Michelle would get huge PCS like Joannie, so Yuna would not beat a clean Michelle even under CoP.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Under CoP, Michelle at her best would land 7 triples. 3T-3T, 3L, 3R, 3S, 3F, 3L, 2A.
    Yuna, at her best (TEB 2009), is doing 5 triples.
    Michelle would get huge PCS like Joannie, so Yuna would not beat a clean Michelle even under CoP.
    Being able to land all triples doesn't necessarily mean that a skater is absolutely strong lol.

  12. #27
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    And this whole thread proves why it's a stupid thing to discuss, let me give you a couple of reasons:

    1. Any discussion of Yuna ends in some heated discussion often turns rabid and ends with meltdowns from the detractors when Yuna declared queen of everything, high priestess of the world and god to everyone.
    2. Any discussion of Michelle ends in some heated discussion often turns rabid and ends with the meltdowns from the detractors when Michelle is declared Kween of everything, high priestess of the world and god to everyone.
    3. A Kween trumps a Queen, so Kwan wins :P
    4. They competed under different systems in different eras against different competitors so a comparison is not really warranted or valid.
    5. Do we bother comparing Ito with Kwan?

    In any event if we're playing the coulda/woulda/shoulda then Witt would win, because in my head she'd go and get bioninc limbs and whip quints off in her sleep....eat that Kwan and Kim.

    Ant

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bijoux View Post
    Are there more complete skaters than Michelle? Yes, there are several on a good day. But recall Salome and her first world title in 1996 even beat the exquisite Chen Lu. We forget she won her first world championship at 16. Do you YuNA tics even recall this skate? Were you alive, LOL?
    Yes, I was alive. I may not remember this particular skate, but I remember Nagano very distinctly :sheesh: Anyways, I disliked the thread to begin with because I knew it would end with Yu-na bashing. Yu-na is talented, but the Kween is a legend. I just wish you didn't say that commentators gush over her for money only. Yu-na may not match the Kween, but she did set a world record in the short at the age of 16 Mind you, but I think she's pretty darn talented.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    2. Any discussion of Michelle ends in ...Michelle (being) declared Kween of everything, high priestess of the world and god to everyone.
    And your point is?

  15. #30
    Custom Title antmanb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    And your point is?
    Shhhhhhh! That was my point...see I how handed Kwan the victory in the next one and still managed to come off as if i thought the whole comparison was pointless?!

    Ant

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