Stojko opposes the ladies result | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Stojko opposes the ladies result

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
As much as I like Yu na's skating overall I've always wonder why they ignore her spins which are not very good to me. Do they really give her positive GOE's on all of her spins?
 

Figure88

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
I just watched the ladies' highlights on Eurosport, and Chris & Simon essentially said the same thing Elvis did: Yu-Na was clearly the best, but Mao was also very strong and 3A combos should be worth more - as should quads and quad combos in the men's. It's not an unreasonable argument, although Elvis could do a better job of presenting it.

No, I don't agree. If Mao wants to close the point differential with Yuna, she should execute her jumps better, which includes fully rotating her jumps, including the 2t of her 3a-2t combo. It's only fair.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
I thought Mao and Yu-Na were pretty close but I wasn't writing down anything they did, comparing what GOE I'd have given them , or checking the protocols for changes according to the technical specialist. One's opinion of a skate just from watching can be very different if one is just watching and enjoying rather than marking the performances. As to the GOE on Mao's 3ax, I don't think anyone should get positive GOE if there's any question whether or not the jump was fully rotated in the air. She did it and it was clean. Bravo for her, truly, but it wasn't worth a huge GOE.

If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?
 

ros01

Spectator
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
I don't think you can compare the ladies' and men's situations that easily. 3-3 combinations are still extremely rare among the ladies. So are 3xs, I grant you, but in the men's, 3-3 are more common at the top. I think both Kim and Asada deserve credit for pushing the envelope. And Kim's program is much better, which I think accounts for a lot of the big difference. (I hope Mao gets a better coach/choreo.)

And yes, this is more of Elvis pushing his jumps above everything platform. I hate to see him keep doing this. I was always a fan, and I would think even he would acknowledge that his skating improved so much in other ways throughout his career, even as his quads left him. I just sigh and try to think back fondly on his deeds, not his words.
 

cherriee

Spectator
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?

I watched the super slowmo too. For a minute, I was worried that the 3toe of the 3lutz/3toe would be downgraded. I don't remember if they did a slowmo on Rachel's 3lutz(?)/3toe combo.
 

Nadia01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?

Actually Yuna's flip was fully rotated, but even JP commentators said Mao's flip was giri-giri (borderline).

Also if they'd dinged Yuna & Mao for UR, almost everyone else would've received DGs.
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010

Actually Yuna's flip was fully rotated, but even JP commentators said Mao's flip was giri-giri (borderline).

Also if they'd dinged Yuna & Mao for UR, almost everyone else would've received DGs.

That's why I said her jumps were barely rotated. I didn't say she was UR. NBC showed a slowmo replay and they were borderline. So, for someone to say Mao didn't deserve good GOE because she barely rotated her jumps, that rule should also apply to Kim.
 

Nadia01

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
That's why I said her jumps were barely rotated. I didn't say she was UR. NBC showed a slowmo replay and they were borderline. So, for someone to say Mao didn't deserve good GOE because she barely rotated her jumps, that rule should also apply to Kim.

Huh?

Yuna's jumps were all fully rotated.

Don't be a hater unless you actually have something more substantive to say because you're basic your accusation on...what?
 

yunasashafan

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 22, 2010
That's why I said her jumps were barely rotated. I didn't say she was UR. NBC showed a slowmo replay and they were borderline. So, for someone to say Mao didn't deserve good GOE because she barely rotated her jumps, that rule should also apply to Kim.

Regardless of the rotation issue, there is a major difference between Mao and Yuna's combos: Mao takes forever to setup her combo, and she just gets it done while Yuna goes at it at super-sonic speed, has amazing height on BOTH jumps and great flow of it. Doesn't that warrant higher GOES? Besides, Yuna's combo has a 0.5 difference in base value. That's almost 2.5 points difference right there.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
and the lawyer comes out :laugh:

:laugh:

Well i heard once that the moon was made of cream cheese, so I think I should have won the Olympics because I was eating cream cheese and crackers while i was watching it.

OT house-keeping/feedback - what's with the big spaces before quotes...oh and every time i reply in this thread i get a bunch of multi-quotes appearing where i've replied before??

Ant
 

bmelanie

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?

I'm actually with you on the 3F - I think both girls were fine and should have gotten lots of +GOe - but Mao's 2T after her 3A was nowhere near fully rotated. Fully expected a DG.
 

Figure88

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
That's why I said her jumps were barely rotated. I didn't say she was UR. NBC showed a slowmo replay and they were borderline. So, for someone to say Mao didn't deserve good GOE because she barely rotated her jumps, that rule should also apply to Kim.

They're not borderline. Yuna's jumps look at most 45 degrees UR, which is permitted under the rules which allows up to 90 degrees under-rotation. Mao's double toe looked conspicuously under-rotated to me--a single rotation at most.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
I watched the super slowmo too. For a minute, I was worried that the 3toe of the 3lutz/3toe would be downgraded. I don't remember if they did a slowmo on Rachel's 3lutz(?)/3toe combo.

Yes they showed Rachael and the second jump and maybe both on her 3x3 was ur'ed. . Even Scott said so and he rarely goes against an American skater. Her solo 3Lutz was also questionable and sloppy.
Rachael and Miki were treated very kindly last night as both made mistakes.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Antman said:
Yes the 3 Axel is a difficult jump, but a 3/3 combination is more difficult than a 3A/2 combination. The double toe is the easiest jump that you will see performed by elite skaters. It is a jump that some adult skaters can land - tacking it onto a 3A is not an impressive feat in and of itself - the triple axel is the only impressive thing about such a combination. Most elite senior (and actually probably junior too) skaters can tack a double toe on the end of any jump.
Ant? How can you say 3A-2T is easier than 3-3 when many (lady) skaters have done the latter and a tiny handful the former? And as for tacking on the 2T - correct me if I'm wrong since I"m not a technical person, but aren't skaters often omitting to tack it on because they lack speed or the first jump wasn't landed quite right? I don't think it's to be minimized... esp. after a 3A!

I think Stojko is helping to focus a debate, so why the problem with his speaking up? He seems to enjoy being in the thick of controversy. Not every former champion would be up for that.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Forget the GoEs (- or +) they are just opinions regardless of any directive saying otherwise.
What should be done is let the judges handle the whole thing (get rid of the Technical Panel)

Let the element scores range from 0-10 and then multiplied by the base value for a particular element.
Then put the step sequence in the PC scores. All this would be in line with other judged Sports.

By and large, the PC scores are more opinion than quantitative. Like the 6.0 System, one man's feast is another man's poison. I would just suggest that an explanation should accompany the PC scores after the placements have been made. I am a firm believer in the right of the fan to know what's going on.

If quality is a multiplier, then Stoijko will even be more pissed off.
 

Fan123

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Ant? How can you say 3A-2T is easier than 3-3 when many (lady) skaters have done the latter and a tiny handful the former? And as for tacking on the 2T - correct me if I'm wrong since I"m not a technical person, but aren't skaters often omitting to tack it on because they lack speed or the first jump wasn't landed quite right? I don't think it's to be minimized... esp. after a 3A!

I think Stojko is helping to focus a debate, so why the problem with his speaking up? He seems to enjoy being in the thick of controversy. Not every former champion would be up for that.
I totally agree. I also agree with 2 other posters saying that the whole issue is pointless since both Kim and Asada know well the base values of their jumps prior to competing at these Olympics. I don't mind the whole point system needs to changed for next season.
 

Sk8n Mama

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?

Not saying that *was* the reason, saying I think it *should* be part of the CoP: if the jump is so close to being underrotated, the technical specialist is not sure until the jump is reviewd at least once and maybe more, it shouldn't be eligible for + GOE.
 
Last edited:

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Where in my post did i say that judges don't ever compare skaters when scoring?

What annoys me a little is when people write strong opinions on judges and how they judged a competition or applied the rules, when the poster then admits that they've "heard" something about the rules rather than read them....how good an opinion is it if it's based on heresay about the rules and the person hasn't even read the rules for themselves? How do they know that the heresay about the rules is even correct?

Ant

Well you did say the judges do not compare skaters to others, or even the skater to themselves right? So it seems like you are saying they don't make comparisons. Anyways, I think you're overreacting in a way. So people can't make some opinions about the judging unless they read the whole manuel of rules? :sheesh: BTW I said the judges MIGHT not they were definitely judging that way or anything. If you don't like my opinion, you can just ignore~~~but I and others have the right to make one right?
 
Top